Colin Kaepernick

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Henry Vilas
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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:24 pm

Image

Roy
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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby Roy » Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:40 pm

Protesting during the national anthem presents several difficulties. Freedom of speech isn't one of them.

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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby penquin » Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:49 am

I agree that protesting while at work isn't protected by "freedom of speech", but I also can't help but wonder if an employer can require workers to stand during the National Anthem....smacks a tad of idolatry and forced prayer.

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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby Roy » Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:47 am

penquin wrote:I agree that protesting while at work isn't protected by "freedom of speech", but I also can't help but wonder if an employer can require workers to stand during the National Anthem....smacks a tad of idolatry and forced prayer.

Standing forces no prayer, neither does the hand over the heart. There fore no worship nor idolatry.

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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby Henry Vilas » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:11 am

It wasn't always that way.

But where did the idea to regulate the way Americans choose to respect the flag come from, anyway? As it turns out, the U.S. Flag Code dates back to the not-too-distant year of 1942. The decision to enact began with the Pledge of Allegiance—a ritual that used to involve a salute that required you to raise your right hand, flip your palm down, point it toward the flag in a salute and recite the words. These instructions might seem unthinkable today for obvious reasons—they’re reminiscent of rows of Nazis saluting their Fuhrer. But believe it or not, they date from the beginning of the Pledge itself.

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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby Paleo2 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:04 pm

Roy wrote:
penquin wrote:I agree that protesting while at work isn't protected by "freedom of speech", but I also can't help but wonder if an employer can require workers to stand during the National Anthem....smacks a tad of idolatry and forced prayer.

Standing forces no prayer, neither does the hand over the heart. There fore no worship nor idolatry.


There are religions which forbid that. What you consider prayer and what someone of a different faith consider prayer are not always the same. For example, a Jehovah's witness is not permitted to salute the flag or sing the National Anthem, but could stand for the Anthem so as not to disrupt the ceremony. I would assume placing the hand over the heart would be considered saluting the flag, and would NOT be permitted for a Jehovah's Witness.

http://thejehovahswitnesses.org/flag.php

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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby Roy » Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:40 pm

Paleo2 wrote:I would assume...

Get back to me when you have facts.

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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby Cadfael » Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:48 pm

Roy wrote:
Paleo2 wrote:I would assume...

Get back to me when you have facts.

How about you read the article and get back to me?

If they don't stand for the anthem or participate in any flag ceremonies at all, why do you think putting the hand on the heart is something they might do?

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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby Paleo2 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:25 pm

Roy wrote:
Paleo2 wrote:I would assume...

Get back to me when you have facts.



I just showed you the facts, dipshit. It's all in the article.

It says Jehovah's witnesses are NOT permitted to salute the flag. Putting one's hand over the heart is saluting the flag.

https://libertyflags.com/saluting-the-american-flag/

MEN remove hats and hold at left shoulder with hand over heart; without hat, place right hand, palm open, over heart.

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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby Paleo2 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:42 pm

From the same soure (libertyflags.com) an athlete standing at attention during the National Anthem could be considered saluting the flag.

Saluting the American Flag when in civilian attire
MEMBERS OF THE ARMED FORCES and veterans who are present but not in uniform may render the military salute.
MEN remove hats and hold at left shoulder with hand over heart; without hat, place right hand, palm open, over heart.
WOMEN should place right hand, palm open, over heart.
WOMEN may continue to wear headwear, although it is appropriate to remove all caps.
When in athletic clothing, face the flag or music, remove hat or cap and stand at attention; a hand salute is not given.
All citizens salute when the Pledge of Allegiance is spoken.
All citizens salute when the National Anthem is played and should stand at attention and salute the US flag until the anthem is finished.


The Jehovah's Witness site I linked to stated that the members follow their own conscience in behavior in flag ceremonies for the "gray areas".

In other words, for some religions, an athlete standing at attention during the National Anthem may be contrary to the religious views.

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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby Roy » Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:25 pm

Jehovah Witness in sports
There are none shown in football, or NFL. Now what?

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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby HawkHead » Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:36 pm

Roy wrote:Jehovah Witness in sports
There are none shown in football, or NFL. Now what?

That link is a list of 11 athletes who are Jehovah Witnesses. Do you seriously think there were only 11 players ever? Ugh. What a numbskull.

I know they discourage competitive sports but to think only 11 ever played is nuts.

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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby Paleo2 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:09 pm

HawkHead wrote:
Roy wrote:Jehovah Witness in sports
There are none shown in football, or NFL. Now what?

That link is a list of 11 athletes who are Jehovah Witnesses. Do you seriously think there were only 11 players ever? Ugh. What a numbskull.

I know they discourage competitive sports but to think only 11 ever played is nuts.


Nor does that matter. Jehovah's Witnesses are just one example.

The First Amendment rights that Jehovah's Witnesses enjoy extend to anyone whose conscience forbids them to salute the flag.

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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby Roy » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:18 pm

HawkHead wrote:I know they discourage competitive sports but to think only 11 ever played is nuts.

You said only 11 ever played, not me. I said there was none ( presently) playing in the NFL

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Re: Colin Kaepernick

Postby fennel » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:22 pm

Roy wrote:You said only 11 ever played, not me. I said there was none ( presently) playing in the NFL

Roy wrote:Jehovah Witness in sports
There are none shown in football, or NFL. Now what?
Roy has to be spoon-fed.


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