JDS

[christopher_robin]

Wait, what? If Google moves in they are just looking for prime office space for their employees, not to make a profit on real estate. And they have the cash flow.

So I guess I don't understand your logic here willyst. Your statement is predicated on running a real estate operation in the black. Companies like Google have completely different goals.

[willystresident]

I get you now, but its tough to find and anchor tenant who's willing to add 25% on to the project cost to build a parking ramp for the benefit of government employees. If I was Google (Alphabet?), I would be looking to drop money on a public benefit with a little broader impact than parking convenience for public office workers.

[christopher_robin]

Agreed. Thank you for the insight on the cost vis-a-vis parking.

[willystresident]

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/ ... e039a.html

More JDS news. I'm really starting to like the Beitler proposal more, especially since they're talking about adding a Mariano's downtown. I've mentioned that grocer in another thread RE the Festival in the Galaxie, but its an upscale grocery store thats basically a combo of Copps and Whole Foods--you can get reasonably priced regular groceries and all the fancy-pants stuff Whole Foods sells. And then they have live pianists during peak hours, which is seriously the best way to grocery shop.

[timby]

You know, I spent several years working in the tourism and hospitality industries and I totally understand that Monona Terrace needs more nearby hotel capacity in order to get more business. I get that.

But I still completely fail to understand why the city should be subsidizing competition for a bunch of other private businesses. It's not like they forked out cash to help finance the Concourse's lobby and restaurant renovations, or the massive work going on at the Inn on the Park.

[gargantua]

But I still completely fail to understand why the city should be subsidizing competition for a bunch of other private businesses. It's not like they forked out cash to help finance the Concourse's lobby and restaurant renovations, or the massive work going on at the Inn on the Park.

I agree. They must believe that the project wouldn't happen without the subsidy. My response is that in that case, the project shouldn't be done.

[fennel]

I agree. They must believe that the project wouldn't happen without the subsidy. My response is that in that case, the project shouldn't be done.

Or that the City should at least, get a guaranteed return over time — like any loan.

[Beaver]

I just read Fennel is good for gas. Good to know.

3 Foods That Can Help Minimize Gas
http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/TIP05878/3- ... e-Gas.html

"If you are feeling bloated or gassy, some foods can help calm your stomach. Try these three:

1. Fennel (Foeniculum vulgare). The seeds, leaves, and roots of the fennel plant are readily available in many forms including plain seeds, sugar-coated seeds, extract, oil, and capsules. All offer a natural way to help relieve gas. When shopping, note that fresh fennel seeds should have a strong aroma, and other forms should have a freshness date. Simply chew and swallow one-half to one teaspoon of fennel seeds after eating, whenever distended from gas, or as recommended by product label. Children can take half the adult dose."

[narcoleptish]

Anything having to do with being "bloated or gassy" should be in the National Politics & Government thread.

[timby]

But I still completely fail to understand why the city should be subsidizing competition for a bunch of other private businesses. It's not like they forked out cash to help finance the Concourse's lobby and restaurant renovations, or the massive work going on at the Inn on the Park.

I agree. They must believe that the project wouldn't happen without the subsidy. My response is that in that case, the project shouldn't be done.

It just strikes me as incredibly ironic that Mayor Soglin's run in 2011 was almost entirely fueled by his opposition to the Edgewater TIF proposals, and now he's spent the last several years trying to get financing for another hotel -- and he very nearly got the City into deep financial shit with the way he was essentially screaming "damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead" with the Exact Sciences thing. How he thought "yeah, let's get in bed with a one-product company in a ridiculously competitive and rapidly developing market" was a good idea is beyond me.

[snoqueen]

Every Soglin administration has had at least one big giant downtown project as its signature, and every one of those has had a shorter shelf life than one would have hoped. State Street Mall (what IS that, anyway?), the first Civic Center (RIP, neat sunny little kiddie area in the window), The Second Civic Center AKA Overture, the Pseudo Frank Lloyd Wright Convention Center, and now this. We should have seen it coming.

A city has to invest in its downtown, but some of this stuff has ended up costing the city plenty more than simple, sound, block-by-block development would have. What we actually built didn't come cheap and a lot of dollars went straight down the toilet. Ironically the one project we "lost," Epic, probably did more for the downtown than any single grandiose governmental gesture ever did. Downtown is healthy today but it's hard to say the city's big mega projects were the primary driver.

The city would do well to come up with ways to encourage small tech business startups and the related infrastructure. That's a strong economic and cultural driver that brings collateral residential and small-business development right behind. I'd rather see more emphasis on this and less on stuff like JDS. What makes the city think it can pick winners? (It can't, evidence shows.) It ought to be tending the ground that supports a multitude of options instead.

[penquin]

...the Pseudo Frank Lloyd Wright Convention Center...

'cuse me...hate to nit-pick on a good rant (no joke, you were on a great roll girl!) but the Terrace's shelf life is far from over. People from all over the world marvel at our jewel-on-the-lake, and it is one of the things the city got right.

And it is actually a Community and Convention center...as a local person you should check out why it is called the former. Ya might like this or maybe this or perhaps even this. Or just come in some morning and wander around...it truly is a beautiful building. as long as you keep your eyes away from the carpet, of course.

Full disclourse: Been workin' there since 2008, and absolutely luv it. Both the space and the people

[timby]

Yeah, there have been plenty of misfires in public spending here in Madison, but Monona Terrace is not one of them. And out-of-town convention attendees love it, too.

My objection isn't in any way to the existence of Monona Terrace, which is a fantastic facility (outside of the catering, which leaves more than a little to be desired), and I totally understand the reason the city built it -- a tourist is a temporary taxpayer, after all. But if the city goes forward with financing a hotel which will make money for a private business, then Steve Zanoni and every other downtown-area hotel operator should be pounding on Mayor Soglin's door and demanding an explanation.

[snoqueen]

I know lots of people like the Convention Center, and that's good. Nobody wants a big failed public building, and this isn't one.

I never really hated the orange carpeting, and I like the milder new carpet even better.

The reasons I dislike the place are design-related and not worth discussing. I just think it's clunky overall. But it's a convention center! They're clunky by definition, big rooms with moveable walls and as little in the way as possible. What more can ya do?

The outside lake view is a perfect match to the old Carmen's store on the square, which screamed 70s (or some such decade).

I hate the tunnel underneath -- it's such a sad entry to the isthmus once people cross the causeway (which is lovely). And I wish there was an attractive, outdoors way for people on foot to get down to the lakeshore from the capitol level. The upper deck is OK and fun on a windy day but no replacement for an actual park. The elevator thingy is unpleasant.

Fish like to hide underneath, which is a plus I guess.

This is all water over the dam and not worth discussing because it's already built. Complaining is pointless. I just wanted to explain my admittedly minority view with no intention of making converts.

I like the new hotel they're building just east of the square, and i love the Galaxy down the hill. I don't hate all new stuff, not by a long shot.

I also like the nearly-brutalist coliseum, believe it or not. I know it's on the teardown list, and I'll miss it. It's kind of a dopey beltline landmark, like a giant fiberglass muskie up north only ours looks like a concrete umbrella. You need a sense of humor about these things.

Carry on.

[gargantua]

You're absolutely right about the tunnel. I wish that could be improved somehow.