Why I oppose the Death Penalty, period

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IU2Bmanoletters
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Why I oppose the Death Penalty, period

Postby IU2Bmanoletters » Sat Aug 04, 2018 4:15 pm

Among the many the reasons I oppose Capital Punishment are the following (mostly dismal) facts:

1. More than 150 men, and at least four women, whose innocence was indisputably proven (plus a very few who received a pardon from the governor, regardless of their guilt or innocence), have been freed from American death rows in recent decades;

2. The "Anti-terrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996" (Thanks a bunch Blue Dem Bill Clinton and his congressional accomplices) imposed absurd and atrocious impediments for the condemned to try to prove their innocence; missing a deadline to file a writ of Habeus Corpus, for example. Behold the case of Nebraska's Marco Torres Jr., posted below;

3. When I was living in Florida in the 1990's, the state's Attorney General, Bob Butterworth, a "Democrat," notified the country and the world that "people thinking of committing crimes in Florida should think twice, as the Sunshine State has a malfunctioning electric chair." (I'm paraphrasing Butterworth). The chair was known affectionately as "Old Sparky." At least two electrocutions went savagely wrong during the period 1997-1998 - I'll spare you all the gory details, but it was an even more grisly procedure than most of those state-sponsored murders that had transpired "normally."

4. The Death Penalty is a barbaric anachronism, a punishment that has wisely been discontinued in more advanced countries; Canada, Britain, France, Germany, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Holland, etc. Even Russia, which has capital punishment statutes on the books, hasn't carried out an "official" execution since 1996. USA's stubborn retention of Capital Punishment puts us in the company of some equally blood-thirsty countries. China, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Indonesia, Pakistan and, surprisingly, even Japan still have the death penalty; all those I listed carry it out all too often, with the single exception of Pakistan; Pakistan did at least place a moratorium on executions between 2008-2014;

5. Even more barbaric is the fact that many inmates facing their death at the hands of the state have already been confined in extremely brutal conditions for two, three, even four decades. Good Gawd, someone sitting on Death Row for 30 or 40 years has already been severely punished. And yet, expediting a draconian form of retribution, as opposed to killing a person decades after his/her crimes (alleged or real) in no way obscures the fact Capital Punishment represents the zenith of official sadism;

6. Capital Punishment is not a real deterrent; many murderers commit their crimes in the heat of passion; no spiritually medieval practice such as electrocution or lethal injection will suffice to prevent a determined killer from killing. One of the few things about Wisconsin I still can remain justifiably proud of is the fact we are an abolitionist state that executed its last victim in the 1850's.
So I totally agree with Pope Francis on this issue.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/03/us/n ... ctionfront

https://www.omaha.com/news/courts/nebra ... 0746d.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiterro ... ct_of_1996

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-new ... --10797256

https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/innocence- ... -death-row

https://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/12/us/c ... inois.html

Henry Vilas
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Re: Why I oppose the Death Penalty, period

Postby Henry Vilas » Sat Aug 04, 2018 5:37 pm

Pope Francis now says the Catholic Church totally opposes the death penalty, the Inquisition not withstanding.

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Re: Why I oppose the Death Penalty, period

Postby gargantua » Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:15 pm

Better late than never, I guess. I may have supported the death penalty when I was a kid, but I haven't for decades. It's only purpose now is purely punitive.

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Re: Why I oppose the Death Penalty, period

Postby IU2Bmanoletters » Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:37 pm

I hear you, Henry - you make a valid point. It's pretty weird to find me self in full agreement with the Vatican's head honcho. And of course, trying to quantify the amount of blood on the Catholic Church's evil hands, historically, is a daunting, in fact impossible feat. I also very much appreciate your sensible change of opinion, Gargantua.

I wanted to make even more cogent arguments in favor of abolition, but I dreaded the thought of boring people even further with my writing, which is in desperate need of some refreshment via dictionary and thesaurus.

Here's an interesting notion, one that doesn't limit itself to the Capital Punishment issue alone: With all the crises we face on a globe that is ailing terribly, a globe that is in effect being held hostage by the super-rich, US society needs the assistance of all those willing to help out. Including, I might add, all the folks on death row who've been falsely convicted, as well as those hundreds of thousands now imprisoned who've received sentences vastly more severe than say, European norms. Non violent offenders are actually the majority of those incarcerated in the USA - I predict our nation will soon need their potential contributions to the cause of human survival, more urgently than ever.

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Re: Why I oppose the Death Penalty, period

Postby gozer » Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:07 am

pakistan just uses al-qaida and laskhar-e-taiba et al to kill people they don't like . . . so that the i s i can do end-to-end provisioning of death, without that messy oversight that judicial capital punishment would entail . . .

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Re: Why I oppose the Death Penalty, period

Postby Paleo2 » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:08 pm

I don’t oppose the death penalty in theory.

If and when we can know for certain that ONLY guilty people will be executed, that the penalty will be applied fairly and only for exceptionally heinous crimes (mass murder, terrorism, torture and/or rape followed by murder are examples)
Then and only then will I support the death penalty.

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Re: Why I oppose the Death Penalty, period

Postby Cadfael » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:38 pm

Paleo2 wrote:I don’t oppose the death penalty in theory.

If and when we can know for certain that ONLY guilty people will be executed, that the penalty will be applied fairly and only for exceptionally heinous crimes (mass murder, terrorism, torture and/or rape followed by murder are examples)
Then and only then will I support the death penalty.

For a long time I felt that way but now I don't know. Now I wonder if life imprisonment is the better way to go even if that's what the criminal wants. I'm pretty sure the cost right now is about the same for either one, maybe even a little lower for a life sentence. Mostly it's just something about taking a life. I'm getting old I think.

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Re: Why I oppose the Death Penalty, period

Postby snoqueen » Sun Aug 26, 2018 8:01 pm

Also, it would be nice if the US got on board with the standards observed in the rest of the developed free world in this matter. We've got a long ways to go on so many issues it's not funny, but this particular item would be a quick fix.

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Re: Why I oppose the Death Penalty, period

Postby Igor » Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:08 pm

Paleo2 wrote:I don’t oppose the death penalty in theory.

If and when we can know for certain that ONLY guilty people will be executed, that the penalty will be applied fairly and only for exceptionally heinous crimes (mass murder, terrorism, torture and/or rape followed by murder are examples)
Then and only then will I support the death penalty.


Same. It's not the punishment, it's our batting average.

gargantua
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Re: Why I oppose the Death Penalty, period

Postby gargantua » Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:16 pm

I'm not sure if I'd feel any differently if I believed in an afterlife, but I don't. I think it's just wrong to take someone's life when we can protect society just as well through secure incarceration. And taking someone's freedom, for life, is punitive enough for me.

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Re: Why I oppose the Death Penalty, period

Postby DCB » Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:58 am

I oppose the death penalty for (mostly) moral reasons.

However, this is a of course highly subjective, and "because I say so" is not a good legal argument (even though it is correct).

As Paleo2 points out, our "criminal justice system" is deeply flawed; c.f. the amazing work of the Innocence Project. This should be a perfectly valid legal argument. It is criminal that far too many innocent people are in prison; but at least while they are alive they have some recourse for protesting.

In addition, our legal system is also very discriminatory (race, class, gender), and punishment is applied unfairly. This also should be be a valid argument against the death penalty. Unfortunately many Americans see this as a feature.

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Re: Why I oppose the Death Penalty, period

Postby IU2Bmanoletters » Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:39 pm

Jeezus Breezes! If I didn't know better, I'd think the notably conservative George Will had joined the Democratic Socialists of America!
"Abolish the death penalty:"
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... 84d3ee6e40

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Re: Why I oppose the Death Penalty, period

Postby IU2Bmanoletters » Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:07 pm

Proof that evolving standards of decency continue to evolve, even in the Age of Trump.
"Washington's state Supreme Court outlaws death penalty:"
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watc ... y-unlawful

gargantua
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Re: Why I oppose the Death Penalty, period

Postby gargantua » Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:27 am

IU2Bmanoletters wrote:Proof that evolving standards of decency continue to evolve, even in the Age of Trump.
"Washington's state Supreme Court outlaws death penalty:"
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watc ... y-unlawful

It's nice to see some good news occasionally. Thanks.

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Re: Why I oppose the Death Penalty, period

Postby gozer » Sun Oct 14, 2018 2:29 pm

DCB wrote: and "because I say so" is not a good legal argument (even though it is correct).


just once, for kicks, i would like a politician to get up and use that as their argument for or against something (of course, all sorts of politicians & judges and so forth mean that all or most of the time, but i have yet to hear them get up and say it . . .)

reporter: "what is your argument for the additional appropiations added to this budget bill for covering vibrators with medicare?"
senator or someone: "because i said so . . ."

city council member: "why should we annex that sub-division?"
mayor: "because i said so."

reporter: "why did u vote for the writ of certiorari for the case of such and such:
kavanaugh: "because i said so."

me: "why is dextromoramide not available for medicinal use in the united states?"
politicians: "because we said so."


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