Harris fires a shot accross Pocahontas's bow

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.
globalwarming
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Harris fires a shot accross Pocahontas's bow

Postby globalwarming » Wed Feb 06, 2019 8:44 pm

There are too many democrat contenders. Kamasutra Harris plays the first race card (lol); in what will surely become the democrat's circular intersectionality firing squad.
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gargantua
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Re: Harris fires a shot accross Pocahontas's bow

Postby gargantua » Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:01 pm

Good. Best to get it out of the way early.

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Re: Harris fires a shot accross Pocahontas's bow

Postby pjbogart » Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:38 pm

I think this story has longer legs than most of us originally thought, and it didn't help that her opponents looked like asses while they were trying to make HER look like an ass, but she needs to find a way to clean this shit up. I really respect her, I think she's one of the more sincere populists in Washington, but this story is going to dog her throughout her campaign.

My two cents is that I actually have a somewhat similar story, though in today's hyper-sensitive culture I think her situation is worse. When I applied to Law School I played up that my step-father was blind, that I grew up disadvantaged and basically I was "persevering despite many difficulties". Truth? I grew up poor, but my absentee father was always a reliable safety net, I went to a lilly-white high school and had all the advantages I could dream of and my blind step-father wasn't really a step-father... he married my mother while I was in undergrad so he was less of a father and more of an extra Christmas gift. I didn't pretend to be a minority, which seems irrationally geometrically worse, but I definitely played my best hand.

Why do I share these embarrassing secrets? Because I think it helps me understand Elizabeth Warren. Law School is super competitive. Every advantage you can milk is worth it. I'm sure I'm not the only one who tried to make a mountain out of a molehill in the application process. I'd rather judge her by her actions as a lawyer and politician, but I understand that stories like this can be like poison ivy. You can wash it all you want, but you're probably just stuck waiting it out.

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Re: Harris fires a shot accross Pocahontas's bow

Postby DCB » Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:33 am

I think it helps me understand Elizabeth Warren. Law School is super competitive.

There is no evidence that Warren used her heritage to get ahead. At all.

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Re: Harris fires a shot accross Pocahontas's bow

Postby Cadfael » Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:01 pm

She can't shake it without help from the tribes. If she can approach them in a good way, ask the right questions with respect of the heritage, she can make a case. If they believe her heart is in the right place, they can get her out of this.

But they are the only who can do that now.
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Re: Harris fires a shot accross Pocahontas's bow

Postby snoqueen » Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:53 pm

When I was a college student in the 60s, I applied for some program that took place in a different part of the US. I was accepted and went for a short time but dropped out.

When I filled out the application, one question was something like "nationality." Bring from the upper Midwest where, especially in those days, people took pride in their specific ancestry, I wrote Norwegian/Scots-Irish or some such thing. I'm sure I didn't give it a lot of thought, and I was definitely not looking for any advantage. If anything, I was being overly-literal as I tend to be in many instances.

Well, as it turned out the program staff, when I arrived, expected me to be from Norway. This was only one of a number of confusing experiences in my relationship to this program, which was supposed to be sort of a learning-and-service deal. It was a poor fit all around and I'm glad I left before things went really bad.

I wonder if Elizabeth Warren wasn't being overly literal in the same way when she filled in the line about her nationality years ago, and then just kept going. I do not think she was trying to get scholarships or similar advantages -- if it turns out she was, I'll rethink my opinion.

Her identification looks awkward today, and I agree if she's going to pull this one out it'll be with help from the native tribes (which isn't all bad, if the result is building some bridges). Otherwise I think she's a strong presidential candidate and I'd be happy to vote for her. It's unfortunate her opponents are making these long ago misunderstandings into attack issues, but that's politics. She needs to prove she can play defense as well as offense (which she does very well).

Meantime, the popularity of her and Bernie Sanders' economic analysis has pushed the whose field to the left, in closer alignment with what many voters want when questioned in detail. And she'd make a fine Cabinet member.

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Re: Harris fires a shot accross Pocahontas's bow

Postby Henry Vilas » Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:05 pm

That reminds of the first time Ms Vilas traveled back from a Mexico. Back then all you needed was a driver's license. When asked her about her citizenship, she said she was from Wisconsin. The border agent laughed and let her right through without any further questions.

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Re: Harris fires a shot accross Pocahontas's bow

Postby david cohen » Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:31 pm

Kamasutra Harris?

Seriously bro, you should probably read it so you know what position to take that head out of your ass.

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Re: Harris fires a shot accross Pocahontas's bow

Postby Cadfael » Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:41 pm

snoqueen wrote: It's unfortunate her opponents are making these long ago misunderstandings into attack issues, but that's politics. She needs to prove she can play defense as well as offense (which she does very well).

In some ways it is unfortunate but in my own humble opinion it has to be done. Most of us who were alive forty or fifty years ago did things in those times that we sorta knew wasn't the right thing to do but so were a lot of people and it didn't look like there would be any consequences. Now that there are, we have to face them. Or hope nobody remembers.

I'm still not sure I would have told anyone what I'd done if I were Liam Neeson, but I think his current situation is a pretty good example.

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Re: Harris fires a shot accross Pocahontas's bow

Postby Paleo2 » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:01 pm

david cohen wrote:Kamasutra Harris?

Seriously bro, you should probably read it so you know what position to take that head out of your ass.


Some of the right wing web sites are calling her that now.

Not only stupid but unoriginal

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Re: Harris fires a shot accross Pocahontas's bow

Postby Paleo2 » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:13 pm

Note the underlying assumptions. The folks on the right wing believe these to be carved in stone:

1. Nobody who can pass as white claims to be a minority unless they are trying to get affirmative action benefits.

2. If someone listing themselves as a minority gets into a competitive college or gets a competitive job then it must be affirmative action. No other possibility.

As for myself, I am a member of the Oklahoma Cherokee Nation. One of my ancestors sued to get on the Dawes Roll. Had she not done so, or if she had failed in her suit, I would be in the same position as Ms. Warren, knowing I have Indian blood but not being accepted by a tribe. Seriously, that is all the difference between us.

There have been some times when I have gotten affirmative action benefits. There are other times when I have not.

There was one time AFTER I was hired I was filling out some employment forms. I told the HR person I was a tribal member, and asked her if I should mark Indian or White. She couldn’t tell me what to do, but said it might benefit the company if I marked it as Indian.

Having been in academia, I know many universities were making a big effort to find good female candidates around the time Warren was hired by Harvard. I even interviewed one place where they only interviewed me because the woman they wanted to hire took a different job. Being Indian didn’t help me at all. It was between me and a white man, and the white man got the job.

In other words, it is quite probably the case that the hiring committee at Harvard knew she was female but had no idea she had Indian blood. They had a chance to hire a truly outstanding woman, and they did so.

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Re: Harris fires a shot accross Pocahontas's bow

Postby Donald » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:44 pm

It was stupid. People do stupid things for good reasons and for bad reasons. Who knows why she did it? That's what I would say. But, it's not disqualifying. Trump downplayed his German ancestry for years, claiming he was Scottish. Was it a post-WWII humiliation, identifying more with his mother, because he wanted to build a golf course in Scotland? Who knows?

I can accept that Warren has some American Indian ancestry. I'm told my Y chromosome is inherited from the Vikings, probably a result of the Viking conquest of parts of England. I don't consider myself a Viking, or Scandinavian, though when I tell people about my heritage, I always pat my testicles as I relate that bit of information. It makes me think, though, about how that Y chromosome got passed down. Was it the result of rape and pillage, or of love and intermarriage?

Maybe Warren is like me. She identifies more with those who have been mistreated, whatever their race. If my family had at one point been ashamed of having an American Indian relative or ancestor, I think my initial response would be to identify with the outsider.

I guess I'm white, not that there's anything wrong with that--in theory. I don't much like a lot of white people, at least American White People, because of their fake superiority, their hate and their elected leader. That's a stereotype of my race, of course. Maybe Warren felt that way when she put down American Indian on that form. Maybe she thought asking such a question on a registration card for a State Bar application was fucking dumb, and wanted to make a statement. That would be how I'd see it.

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Re: Harris fires a shot accross Pocahontas's bow

Postby Paleo2 » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:51 pm

One thing to remember— Warren grew up in Oklahoma. There are tons of people who are mixed white and Indian; some tribal members some not. Some tribal members don’t consider themselves to be Indian, some who are not do think of themselves as Indian.

The story she tells of white family looking down on a part Indian marrying into the family is one I have heard many times. Sometimes it is true, other times not. In her case, the DNA test matches the story.

Edit to add:

My mother was born and raised in Oklahoma. She grew up during the Dust Bowl, and her mother was born in Indian Territory before statehood.

My grandfather spent decades doing genealogy research to look up his and my grandmother’s Indian ancestors. He was never able to find his purported ancestors but was able to dig up a Dawes Roll ancestor for my grandmother.

My mother is very sympathetic to Ms. Warren. It was such a common story, in our family and many other families she knew growing up.

I also heard many stories like that growing up just across the border in Arkansas. Even Bill Clinton has that sort of family story. Virginia Kelly, Bill’s mother, was very self-conscious about her dark skin and Indian blood.

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Re: Harris fires a shot accross Pocahontas's bow

Postby Ned Flanders » Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:20 pm

"High cheek bones"

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Re: Harris fires a shot accross Pocahontas's bow

Postby pjbogart » Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:09 am

Ned Flanders wrote:"High cheek bones"


Boring barb from a guy with tiny dick bones.


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