Donald Trump Directed Michael Cohen to Lie to Congress

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Weather Bob
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Re: Donald Trump Directed Michael Cohen to Lie to Congress

Postby Weather Bob » Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:19 pm

Bwis53 wrote:When I read the Watergate timeline, Agnew was out (before Nixon) because of numerous crimes, Ford came in and pardoned Nixon,"Our long national nightmare is over!"


And directing witnesses to lie under oath in their Congressional testimony was one of the charges in Nixon's articles of impeachment.

Helpful discussion of this news here, from a federal prosecutor.

Henry Vilas
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Re: Donald Trump Directed Michael Cohen to Lie to Congress

Postby Henry Vilas » Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:19 pm

Weather Bob wrote:... Trump's own Attorney General nominee was repeatedly grilled about this behavior (suborning perjury; persuading a witness to lie under oath). Barr was unequivocal, repeatedly confirming that if a President suborns perjury, that constitutes obstruction of justice and is therefore a crime:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/01/18/trump-reportedly-told-michael-cohen-lie-his-own-attorney-general-pick-testified-thats-crime/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.388ed31e659c

So ... if Mueller does have emails and text messages and other materials showing Trump pressuring Cohen to lie under oath, that's unambiguous grounds for indicting or impeaching the President.


I believe that Barr thinks a sitting president cannot be indicted.

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Re: Donald Trump Directed Michael Cohen to Lie to Congress

Postby Paleo2 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:36 pm

As I said, it would take a lot more than Cohen’s word to get rid of Trump.

If the reports are true, they may have enough.

I really want televised hearings.
Play tapes, read emails on the TV.

No matter what, there will be a hard core saying Trump is being railroaded. But with evidence as strong as the rumors say, the vast majority of Americans will see Trump for what he really is.

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Re: Donald Trump Directed Michael Cohen to Lie to Congress

Postby Weather Bob » Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:44 pm

"The special counsel’s office learned about Trump’s directive for Cohen to lie to Congress through interviews with multiple witnesses from the Trump Organization and internal company emails, text messages, and a cache of other documents."


and, for the record:

18 U.S.C. § 1622: "Whoever procures another to commit any perjury is guilty of subornation of perjury, and shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both."


"Lock Him Up!"

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Re: Donald Trump Directed Michael Cohen to Lie to Congress

Postby Paleo2 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:12 pm

The GOP billionaires may be ready to abandon Trump.

My guess is Trump made a deal with the big wigs who didn’t like his stance on globalization. So they would still support him instead of Hillary if he delivered on tax cuts and Supreme Court justices.

He has outlived his usefulness. Now he is keeping the government shut on an anti globalist wall, and there may be proof of high crimes.

I think the GOP elite would rather have Pence in. If they can figure out how to do that without angering Trump’s base, he is gone.

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Re: Donald Trump Directed Michael Cohen to Lie to Congress

Postby Cadfael » Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:27 pm

Paleo2 wrote:I think the GOP elite would rather have Pence in. If they can figure out how to do that without angering Trump’s base, he is gone.

But they can't. They'd need more than one willing scapegoat for that, people in the GOP who will make the official moves to remove him. The Dems can't do it alone. Even if the shutdown goes on for months, his base will stand by him including the ones who aren't getting a paycheck.

And his base has lots and lots of guns, not much brains, plenty of free time, and a moral code that not only makes killing Trump's enemies a positive, but the trial and jail time would be validation of a job well done. Sitting Republican lawmakers are literally afraid of getting killed by a nut case with a bump fire assault weapon and a vantage point. They've got good reason to be.

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Re: Donald Trump Directed Michael Cohen to Lie to Congress

Postby Ned Flanders » Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:33 pm

I'm smelling another Lucy-Charlie Brown moment.

Donald
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Re: Donald Trump Directed Michael Cohen to Lie to Congress

Postby Donald » Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:50 pm

Cadfael wrote:
Paleo2 wrote:I think the GOP elite would rather have Pence in. If they can figure out how to do that without angering Trump’s base, he is gone.

But they can't. They'd need more than one willing scapegoat for that, people in the GOP who will make the official moves to remove him. The Dems can't do it alone. Even if the shutdown goes on for months, his base will stand by him including the ones who aren't getting a paycheck.

And his base has lots and lots of guns, not much brains, plenty of free time, and a moral code that not only makes killing Trump's enemies a positive, but the trial and jail time would be validation of a job well done. Sitting Republican lawmakers are literally afraid of getting killed by a nut case with a bump fire assault weapon and a vantage point. They've got good reason to be.

You have that right. I see no way the Trump Presidency ends without violence, but the deadenders are only a sliver of the base. There will be violence, but it will not be widespread because by far most of the base will go with Pence. By God, he's a real Christian, a real soldier for the Lord, not a philandering pretender. They were happy to have Trump, a flawed leader, but if they can get the real thing, they'll be so happy they'll even agree to sodomize Stormy.

And Pence, slimy hypocrite that he is, has played a great game. He's seen the end of Trump coming since inauguration day. He's put up with the foul man in the White House so he can inherit the Power that the Lord is about to Bestow on Him.

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Re: Donald Trump Directed Michael Cohen to Lie to Congress

Postby Henry Vilas » Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:56 pm

Trump claims that Cohen will lie about him in sworn testimony and that will get him a reduced sentence. Tell me how that works.

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Re: Donald Trump Directed Michael Cohen to Lie to Congress

Postby Cadfael » Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:15 pm

Donald wrote:
Cadfael wrote:
Paleo2 wrote:I think the GOP elite would rather have Pence in. If they can figure out how to do that without angering Trump’s base, he is gone.

But they can't. They'd need more than one willing scapegoat for that, people in the GOP who will make the official moves to remove him. The Dems can't do it alone. Even if the shutdown goes on for months, his base will stand by him including the ones who aren't getting a paycheck.

And his base has lots and lots of guns, not much brains, plenty of free time, and a moral code that not only makes killing Trump's enemies a positive, but the trial and jail time would be validation of a job well done. Sitting Republican lawmakers are literally afraid of getting killed by a nut case with a bump fire assault weapon and a vantage point. They've got good reason to be.

You have that right. I see no way the Trump Presidency ends without violence, but the deadenders are only a sliver of the base. There will be violence, but it will not be widespread because by far most of the base will go with Pence. By God, he's a real Christian, a real soldier for the Lord, not a philandering pretender. They were happy to have Trump, a flawed leader, but if they can get the real thing, they'll be so happy they'll even agree to sodomize Stormy.

And Pence, slimy hypocrite that he is, has played a great game. He's seen the end of Trump coming since inauguration day. He's put up with the foul man in the White House so he can inherit the Power that the Lord is about to Bestow on Him.

Pence is definitely the Littlefinger of the White House, and you have a point that he can probably take most of the base with him.

The problem is that "not widespread violence." The GOP has been dealing with those triggerhappy idiots for years now, they've been sending out thoughts and prayers for a whole lot of victims killed by a very small number of shooters, and they understand what one guy with one gun can do to them if they piss off the wrong demographic. So they're staying very quiet.

Pence might be able to lure some of them out with promises of protection and reward. That's a possibility.

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Re: Donald Trump Directed Michael Cohen to Lie to Congress

Postby Ned Flanders » Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:55 pm

Sorry kids. Duped again. :wave:

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Re: Donald Trump Directed Michael Cohen to Lie to Congress

Postby gargantua » Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:24 pm

Ned Flanders wrote:Sorry kids. Duped again. :wave:

You should be used to it by now.

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Re: Donald Trump Directed Michael Cohen to Lie to Congress

Postby pjbogart » Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:08 pm

gargantua wrote:
Ned Flanders wrote:Sorry kids. Duped again. :wave:

You should be used to it by now.


Ned's referring to Robert Mueller's office making a rare public statement disputing the accuracy of Buzzfeed's report. No specific accusations, just generally trying to tamp down the frenzy. We know that Michael Cohen lied to Congress but whether his false testimony was suborned by Donald Trump is the real issue. Mueller hasn't made any statement one way or the other.

But in Ned's defense, it may be similar to the entire Dan Rather scenario, where false information was supplied to a news outlet and they ran with it before verifying all of the information. Most of the news organizations reporting on the Buzzfeed article today were very careful to point out that the information had not yet been independently verified, and in many cases it was pointed out that Buzzfeed and this particular journalist had a rather checkered past.

Is it possible that Republican operatives waived this tasty snausage at a reporter hoping to get a story they could use to ridicule the underlying accusations (even if true)? Yeah, that's very possible. Especially considering that Guiliani seemed like his brain and mouth were on different wavelengths for the last few days. I guess it's a form of gaslighting... making us all doubt everything we hear because we're not sure if that ONE THING was perhaps untrue.

In reality, of course, regardless of the veracity of Buzzfeed's reporting, Michael Cohen had little incentive to lie to Congress without being directed to do so by the President. So there's that.

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Re: Donald Trump Directed Michael Cohen to Lie to Congress

Postby snoqueen » Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:49 am

Is it possible that Republican operatives waived this tasty snausage at a reporter hoping to get a story they could use to ridicule the underlying accusations (even if true)? Yeah, that's very possible.... I guess it's a form of gaslighting... making us all doubt everything we hear because we're not sure if that ONE THING was perhaps untrue


I too considered the possibility somebody played the Buzzfeed journalists and I found it plausible. It can be both a long term strategy of discrediting the media, and a way of creating more chaos around reporting on the Mueller investigation.

And even if it didn't happen in this case, you can be sure now that the seed is planted, we can expect more of the same.
Last edited by snoqueen on Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

Henry Vilas
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Re: Donald Trump Directed Michael Cohen to Lie to Congress

Postby Henry Vilas » Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:20 am

Cohen will testify before a House committee in early February. It should be riveting and I plan to watch it all, just like I watched the Watergate hearings back in the day.


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