Donald Trump Directed Michael Cohen to Lie to Congress

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DCB
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Re: Donald Trump Directed Michael Cohen to Lie to Congress

Postby DCB » Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:42 pm

Typically the best analysis of these heavy legal issues is Marcy Wheeler. Her discussion the Buzzfeed story is (as always) nuanced.

I don't pretend to understand the details, but I think she's saying: Buzzfeed might have got some of it wrong, but probably not all of it. And they might have gotten it mostly correct, but Mueller's team felt the need to respond for complicated reasons.

The only thing that explains Carr issuing such an unprecedented statement is if Cohen’s ability to testify on the stand must be preserved.
Robert Mueller has the unenviable task of needing to sustain as much credibility for a bunch of serial liars as possible, starting with Michael Cohen. Buzzfeed’s story — whether generally true or erroneous on details about Trump Organization witnesses or totally wrong — threatened that effort.

And that’s why, I strongly suspect, Peter Carr finally publicly spoke.


Anyway, let's not jump to any conclusions that "this is one that will put Trump away". And it shouldn't be. There are plenty of established reasons Trump should be removed from office.

gargantua
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Re: Donald Trump Directed Michael Cohen to Lie to Congress

Postby gargantua » Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:48 pm

I wish that we could all disabuse ourselves of the notion that Trump will be removed from office by anything other than the 2020 election. Look at a calendar. We will have to vote him out. There isn't enough time for anything else now.

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Re: Donald Trump Directed Michael Cohen to Lie to Congress

Postby Bwis53 » Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:56 pm

Yah, but wasn't Nixon half way through his second term when he resigned?

gargantua
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Re: Donald Trump Directed Michael Cohen to Lie to Congress

Postby gargantua » Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:25 pm

Bwis53 wrote:Yah, but wasn't Nixon half way through his second term when he resigned?

Yes. His second term, not his first. We have no tapes, no 18 1/2 minute gap, no Saturday Night Massacre, and no spines in the Senate. The downward spiral is nowhere near as far along. I guarantee you, Trump will not be impeached and convicted, nor will he resign before the 2020 election. He may choose not to run, but we're still stuck with him until Inauguration Day, 2021.

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Re: Donald Trump Directed Michael Cohen to Lie to Congress

Postby Henry Vilas » Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:40 pm

Let's see if the Mueller report will be made public. There still might be tapes.

DCB
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Re: Donald Trump Directed Michael Cohen to Lie to Congress

Postby DCB » Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:29 pm

We have no tapes, no 18 1/2 minute gap, no Saturday Night Massacre,
... yet.

and no spines in the Senate

This is the critical difference.

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Re: Donald Trump Directed Michael Cohen to Lie to Congress

Postby Cadfael » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:53 pm

gargantua wrote:I wish that we could all disabuse ourselves of the notion that Trump will be removed from office by anything other than the 2020 election. Look at a calendar. We will have to vote him out. There isn't enough time for anything else now.

Clinton was impeached in December and acquitted in February. During that time, pretty much nothing got done. Impeaching Trump won't remove him but it will slow down the machinery. That's all it needs to do. We can't just remove him, Pence will be even worse than what we got now. But we can fuck em up by forcing them to go through the proceedings.

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Re: Donald Trump Directed Michael Cohen to Lie to Congress

Postby gargantua » Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:47 pm

I understand your reasoning. But since we now have a divided Congress, little or nothing of substance is likely to get done in any event. The exception of course is judicial nominees, but since those only require Senate confirmation, I suppose an impeachment proceeding could tie those up. Yeah, that could be crucial, especially if a Supreme Court vacancy arises.

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Re: Donald Trump Directed Michael Cohen to Lie to Congress

Postby Henry Vilas » Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:45 pm

Just think about who a President Pence could nominate to the Supreme Court.

The thought makes me shudder. But I still support impeachment, if it is warranted. And it sure seems to be.

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Re: Donald Trump Directed Michael Cohen to Lie to Congress

Postby Cadfael » Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:00 pm

Trump will be acquitted. There aren't enough votes to convict him. He still has enough money to buy his way out of that one.

Although now that I think about it, Pence is probably devious enough to let Trump think he's buying his way out of it only to get shafted. But then there's still that "whoever impeaches Trump gets shot by gun nuts" thing.

Okay, maybe there's too much if.

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Re: Donald Trump Directed Michael Cohen to Lie to Congress

Postby Henry Vilas » Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:30 pm

If Trump is impeached by the House (they probably have enough votes) let's see the evidence presented for the trial by the Senate. It might be so overwhelming that Trump will either resign (ala Nixon) or maybe even be convicted.

One can only hope.

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Re: Donald Trump Directed Michael Cohen to Lie to Congress

Postby Cadfael » Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:36 pm

I can imagine a scenario where he gets convicted by a narrow margin just because there are enough Republicans who want him out of the way. But resign?

He'll mobilize his armed base into a full scale army and barricade himself inside the White House first. He'll declare emergency and try to make himself dictator. He'll swallow the Top Secret Glowing Green Potion and become a giant megazoid monster. He'll trigger nukes at random. ANYTHING else is more likely than Trump resigning.

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Re: Donald Trump Directed Michael Cohen to Lie to Congress

Postby Bwis53 » Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:45 pm

BuzzFeed journalist: 'Our reporting is going to be borne out'
https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/20/media/bu ... index.html
Journalist Carl Bernstein, a CNN political analyst, told Stelter on Sunday that he thought it was "going to take time before we fully understand what the exact truth is here."

"We don't know where we are with this story right now," he said.
Bernstein defended coverage of the BuzzFeed report by other news organizations. "We had to report it and attribute it to BuzzFeed, and as I said on our air, we don't know whether or not this story is accurate, contextual, true, and it needs to be run down," he said.

I hope it is.


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