Donald Trump Directed Michael Cohen to Lie to Congress

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pjbogart
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Donald Trump Directed Michael Cohen to Lie to Congress

Postby pjbogart » Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:24 am



This probably belongs under "They Admit Russia Meddled" but it seems like this revelation (if true) is so explosive that it could be a turning point in Trump's Presidency. It really makes you wonder what kind of evidence Robert Mueller is sitting on and how many of Trump's inner-circle, including his family members, are implicated in felonious conspiracies. It could very well be "all of the above".

President Trump appears to be operating essentially a criminal organization. From fraudulent non-profits to a fraudulent "university" to allegations of financial, tax and campaign improprieties, The Trump Organization seems to be neck-deep in literally dozens of felonies.

I believe impeachment is finally on the table, whether we want it or not.

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Re: Donald Trump Directed Michael Cohen to Lie to Congress

Postby Cadfael » Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:31 am

I concede that this, plus whatever else Mueller finally makes public, might be enough to begin official impeachment proceedings but I'm not holding my breath. The only thing I'm sure of in all of this is that nothing sticks to Trump. Nothing. Ever.

Impeachment would slow down the Republican Machine in the process of shoveling the nation into the pockets of the Koch brothers, which is good. But by now they're scraping the floor and using a broom to sweep more money into the shovel to fill it up.

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Re: Donald Trump Directed Michael Cohen to Lie to Congress

Postby DCB » Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:33 am

so explosive that it could be a turning point in Trump's Presidency.
Part 9,372.

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Re: Donald Trump Directed Michael Cohen to Lie to Congress

Postby Paleo2 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:44 am

I know an attorney who was once part of a law firm that did business with the Trumps, esp Fred Trump. By “know” I mean I was one of the groomsmen at his wedding. He never violated attorney-client privilege, but during the campaign he sent almost daily emails with links to articles about the illegal and unethical activities of Donald Trump.

In other words, the facts before the election showed Trump to be exactly as pjbogart described. All this was known before the election.

Of course, most voters never figured it out. Most Trump supporters believe he is a self-made man and a sharp negotiator.

I have been urging caution on impeachment.

First, rushing to impeachment of Clinton backfired badly for the GOP, while taking things as they came worked well for Democrats with Nixon. Sweeping probably impeachable offenses committed by Reagan under the rug was probably a savvy move by the Democrats, since there was no smoking gun and Reagan was still popular.

Second, I don’t trust Pence.

At this point a televised investigation by the House Judiciary Committee is necessary. I don’t think Cohen’s word is good enough for impeachment and conviction. But it is a start. It can get the truth about Trump out in the open.

Mueller, the man who brought down Gotti, may be building an ironclad case against Trump. If so, he is a goner.

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Re: Donald Trump Directed Michael Cohen to Lie to Congress

Postby Cadfael » Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:49 am

Paleo2 wrote:I have been urging caution on impeachment.

First, rushing to impeachment of Clinton backfired badly for the GOP, while taking things as they came worked well for Democrats with Nixon. Sweeping probably impeachable offenses committed by Reagan under the rug was probably a savvy move by the Democrats, since there was no smoking gun and Reagan was still popular.

Second, I don’t trust Pence.

Given how long the proceedings against Clinton kept the country shut down, why do you think proceedings against Trump would lead to a Pence presidency?

I firmly believe the net result would be to slow down or shut down the process of shifting all money in the US into private pockets but would ultimately be unsuccessful and would end at the 2020 election.

Change my mind.

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Re: Donald Trump Directed Michael Cohen to Lie to Congress

Postby Donald » Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:01 am

Trump is a disorganized crime boss, the Inspector Clouseau of Dons. He should be impeached as much because he's incompetent as because he's a crook. People could stand one or the other, not both.

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Re: Donald Trump Directed Michael Cohen to Lie to Congress

Postby pjbogart » Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:02 am

Paleo2 wrote:Second, I don’t trust Pence.


That's actually why I said impeachment was on the table "whether we like it or not." I honestly feel like Trump is so damaged that he's going to struggle to do much in his second term, especially considering he has a hostile House to work with. Pence's choices for judicial nominees are likely to be just as bad, if not worse, than Trump's. And Republicans still hold the Senate, so they can shovel whatever shit they want onto the Federal Bench.

I don't feel like Trump has much of a chance of winning again in 2020 and he's such a lightning rod that his presence on the ticket will suppress Republican votes and drive out Democratic votes, so perhaps impeachment isn't such a good idea. But the proverbial "writing on the wall" becomes clearer and clearer by the week. We've already seen some cracks in GOP support for Trump and it wouldn't surprise me if the erosion becomes more like an avalanche in the coming months.

But here we are...

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Re: Donald Trump Directed Michael Cohen to Lie to Congress

Postby Ned Flanders » Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:50 am

"Sources say" :lol:

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Re: Donald Trump Directed Michael Cohen to Lie to Congress

Postby jman111 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:03 am

Ned Flanders wrote:"Sources say" :lol:

Image

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Re: Donald Trump Directed Michael Cohen to Lie to Congress

Postby snoqueen » Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:09 am

pjbogart wrote:
Paleo2 wrote:Second, I don’t trust Pence.


That's actually why I said impeachment was on the table "whether we like it or not." I honestly feel like Trump is so damaged that he's going to struggle to do much in his second term, especially considering he has a hostile House to work with. Pence's choices for judicial nominees are likely to be just as bad, if not worse, than Trump's. And Republicans still hold the Senate, so they can shovel whatever shit they want onto the Federal Bench.

I don't feel like Trump has much of a chance of winning again in 2020 and he's such a lightning rod that his presence on the ticket will suppress Republican votes and drive out Democratic votes, so perhaps impeachment isn't such a good idea. But the proverbial "writing on the wall" becomes clearer and clearer by the week. We've already seen some cracks in GOP support for Trump and it wouldn't surprise me if the erosion becomes more like an avalanche in the coming months.

But here we are...


I agree impeachment (just impeachment, or impeachment and removal) are on the table now. And I agree it's not necessarily the most favorable outcome for the country or for Democrats, though simply upholding the law would be a good thing on its own after all this crap.

In my dreams, we have this: Trump removed from the presidency. Some of the swamp dirt sticks to Pence in some way (I'm not sure how -- this is my dreams, right?) and he does not become president or does not remain long.

And third in line is the speaker of the house, Nancy Pelosi. She's a bitch, in the best sense of the word. She knows how government works, and how to get things done. President Pelosi sounds great to me.

A 2% chance at best, but fun to envision.

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Re: Donald Trump Directed Michael Cohen to Lie to Congress

Postby Paleo2 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:22 am

Cadfael wrote:
Paleo2 wrote:I have been urging caution on impeachment.

First, rushing to impeachment of Clinton backfired badly for the GOP, while taking things as they came worked well for Democrats with Nixon. Sweeping probably impeachable offenses committed by Reagan under the rug was probably a savvy move by the Democrats, since there was no smoking gun and Reagan was still popular.

Second, I don’t trust Pence.

Given how long the proceedings against Clinton kept the country shut down, why do you think proceedings against Trump would lead to a Pence presidency?

I firmly believe the net result would be to slow down or shut down the process of shifting all money in the US into private pockets but would ultimately be unsuccessful and would end at the 2020 election.

Change my mind.


I did not say proceedings against Trump would lead to a Pence presidency.

But they might.

John Dean’s testimony on Nixon was not sufficient for Nixon’s removal. It was the smoking gun in the form of the White House tapes.

Cohen has somewhat less credibility than Dean.

I am saying there is enough evidence now for televised hearing by the House Judiciary Committee which may or may not lead to impeachment. There is certainly far more evidence against Trump than there was against Hillary Clinton for the Benghazi hearings.

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Re: Donald Trump Directed Michael Cohen to Lie to Congress

Postby Henry Vilas » Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:33 am

Paleo2 wrote:John Dean’s testimony on Nixon was not sufficient for Nixon’s removal. It was the smoking gun in the form of the White House tapes.

Cohen has somewhat less credibility than Dean.

Supposedly Cohen also did a lot of taping. And Trump didn't have a Rose Mary Woods on Cohen's staff.

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Re: Donald Trump Directed Michael Cohen to Lie to Congress

Postby Weather Bob » Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:05 pm

Here's the report from Buzzfeed:

"The special counsel’s office learned about Trump’s directive for Cohen to lie to Congress through interviews with multiple witnesses from the Trump Organization and internal company emails, text messages, and a cache of other documents."


If that's correct, it's stunning. In his confirmation hearings just now, Trump's own Attorney General nominee was repeatedly grilled about this behavior (suborning perjury; persuading a witness to lie under oath). Barr was unequivocal, repeatedly confirming that if a President suborns perjury, that constitutes obstruction of justice and is therefore a crime:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/01/18/trump-reportedly-told-michael-cohen-lie-his-own-attorney-general-pick-testified-thats-crime/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.388ed31e659c

So ... if Mueller does have emails and text messages and other materials showing Trump pressuring Cohen to lie under oath, that's unambiguous grounds for indicting or impeaching the President.

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Re: Donald Trump Directed Michael Cohen to Lie to Congress

Postby Ducatista » Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:10 pm

snoqueen wrote:She's a bitch, in the best sense of the word.

Ugh, why do we DO that.

She's a badass. A bulldog. A boss. A battering ram. Whatever. But leave "bitch" for the knuckle draggers, please.

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Re: Donald Trump Directed Michael Cohen to Lie to Congress

Postby Bwis53 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:14 pm

The Today show said Cohen had tapes, emails and I think they said documents.

When I read the Watergate timeline, Agnew was out (before Nixon) because of numerous crimes, Ford came in and pardoned Nixon,"Our long national nightmare is over!"


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