The Internet is a Positive Phase Change That We're Still Adjusting To

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pjbogart
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The Internet is a Positive Phase Change That We're Still Adjusting To

Postby pjbogart » Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:17 pm

The truth is at your fingertips. Lies are at your fingertips, too. We're slowly learning to differentiate. In the future propaganda will be laughed at. The Baby Boomers don't get it. Your grandmother can be tricked into believing that Sharia law is taking over Michigan suburbs. Generation X doesn't get it. Your father can be tricked into believing that Central American immigrants are bringing smallpox, cholera and the bubonic plague over the border. But Millenials get it. The truth is at their fingertips.

We're going to be just fine. In the future lies will be easier to tell, but exposing them will be easier too. The problem isn't old people who vote poorly, it's young people who don't vote at all. But they will. And they'll save our nation and our world. Because "truth" matters to them. We're the problem. They're the solution.

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Re: The Internet is a Positive Phase Change That We're Still Adjusting To

Postby gargantua » Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:00 pm

Sorry, I don't buy the generalities here. Not all Boomers believe Trump's lies. There is a particular demographic subgroup, white, male, less educated, that this applies to but they're a minority. The problem is that they're more likely to vote, and their votes have been gerrymandered to have more weight than they should. But a blanket statement that baby boomers are the problem isn't true.

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Re: The Internet is a Positive Phase Change That We're Still Adjusting To

Postby Polka_Tulk » Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:54 am

Last edited by Polka_Tulk on Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:04 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: The Internet is a Positive Phase Change That We're Still Adjusting To

Postby snoqueen » Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:56 am

The demographic divide that seems most related to political perspective is education level, not age. The Rs targeted the less educated successfully. They didn't target older people as a group.

Think about it. To target older voters, you wouldn't try to take away health care, social security, and other parts of the social safety net. Republicans try to conceal it or re-frame it, but that's exactly what the Ryan budget proposals were based on. They tried to hide it all behind talk of a tax cut. Many people resent paying taxes, so that was their primary talking point.

Apparently they were able to slide it past less-educated voters to some extent, but once people realized their health care would be taken away, they resisted regardless of education level. When people thought the consequences would affect somebody else, destroying "Obamacare" sounded just fine because they were primed to hate anything associated with Obama. So the Republicans were executing a strategy based on keeping their voters confused about the consequences of their policies until the last minute. This required appealing to voters who did not research things for themselves or understand the details of economic analysis.

The Republicans were sawing off the branch they were sitting on. Why they thought they could get away with this for long is a good question. People aren't dumb, regardless of education level, and it's inaccurate to think they can be fooled forever. This applies to all ages. Taking advantage of education level (which includes training in critical thinking) can be applied to any age group.

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Re: The Internet is a Positive Phase Change That We're Still Adjusting To

Postby Igor » Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:18 am

gargantua wrote:The problem is that they're more likely to vote


This is it in a nutshell. Low information (R) voters show up more reliably than low information (D) voters. Yes gerrymandering has hurt, as does the fact that Democratic votes are clustered in small geographic areas. But turnout is really the problem.

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Re: The Internet is a Positive Phase Change That We're Still Adjusting To

Postby pjbogart » Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:01 am

gargantua wrote:Sorry, I don't buy the generalities here. Not all Boomers believe Trump's lies.


I certainly wasn't suggesting that ALL Baby Boomers are idiots. My parents are Baby Boomers and they aren't idiots. But Republicans have been far more successful reaching out to older generations, and I don't think it's simply a cultural thing. Boomers are simply more likely to trust what they hear on the radio, see on the TV and read on the internet. Millenials, by definition, grew up with the internet and social media. They're more wary of what they see and hear. Go over to Reddit and try to pass off a lie... conservative OR liberal. You'll either get called out on it, a mod will erase your post or you'll simply get buried under down-votes. Because younger voters are having none of our shit and they'll tell you so.

We'll see how it plays out, but I suspect the GOP is going to have to make some serious adjustments to cobble together a bloc when they need to rely on Millenials to win elections.

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Re: The Internet is a Positive Phase Change That We're Still Adjusting To

Postby Cadfael » Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:09 am

pjbogart wrote:I certainly wasn't suggesting that ALL Baby Boomers are idiots. My parents are Baby Boomers and they aren't idiots. But Republicans have been far more successful reaching out to older generations, and I don't think it's simply a cultural thing. Boomers are simply more likely to trust what they hear on the radio, see on the TV and read on the internet.

I believe you weren't trying to suggest that. It just happened to appear you were and I'm glad to see the clarification.

And I agree that Trump's base is primarily boomers. But I think most of the problem is that we can't believe the country has moved on from that "work your way up the ranks, save some pay, and you'll retire happily" scenario. When we were growing up the rank and file was full of retirement aged people who were secure in their jobs. My mom and dad had trouble paying the electric bill and got visited, at home, by the guy who collects the bills and they had a long chat. He said this was the first time either one of them had been late, and he'd juggle the books to give them enough time to catch up. And they did. He took a chance on them and we scrimped all summer, and things got better.

I still have to remind myself daily that those days are gone. Millenials not only grew up with the internet, they've never known the system to have a human side. And they don't see any elders in the work force except as upper management.

Yeah Boomers are easily scared. I just think it's because most of my age group does indeed see, on some level, what's going on and is actively looking for any excuse to claim it's not there.

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Re: The Internet is a Positive Phase Change That We're Still Adjusting To

Postby frankiewhalen » Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:18 pm

I know several people, 50 and older, who voted for Trump merely because of the "R". They are all Catholics and one-issue voters.

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Re: The Internet is a Positive Phase Change That We're Still Adjusting To

Postby Cadfael » Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:39 pm

Catholics are really good at letting other people tell them what to think.

Most organized religion in general, actually. A friend spent years feeling vaguely unconnected from everything and joined several spiritual factions. In Seattle, he joined a church whose name I forget, and spent a year or so fairly content. But he became too trusting and told a parishioner that he had found some comfort at a certain new age workshop. Whatever he told her, it spread around congregation like wildfire and within a few days the pastor took him aside and told him to go away. And stay away.

Took him a few years to recover from that one. He's okay now. He's found a place, a good partner, and is living a good life. But damn. Christians can be the most unchristian of any group I know.

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Re: The Internet is a Positive Phase Change That We're Still Adjusting To

Postby Bwis53 » Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:04 pm

The St.Mark's Lutheran Church, at Spruce & Hickory, has a sign up that says: We don't care where you come from. We're glad you're here!

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Re: The Internet is a Positive Phase Change That We're Still Adjusting To

Postby Cadfael » Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:56 pm

Bwis53 wrote:The St.Mark's Lutheran Church, at Spruce & Hickory, has a sign up that says: We don't care where you come from. We're glad you're here!

Yeah, and I think the Lutherans are one of the better ones. But I note that the sign says "We don't care where you came from" and not "You can mess around with that new age crap while you're here and we'll still let you stay."

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Re: The Internet is a Positive Phase Change That We're Still Adjusting To

Postby Henry Vilas » Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:03 pm

Depends upon the Lutherans. Those who adhere strictly to Wisconsin Synod tenets are whack jobs. Young earthers who are even more dogmatic than most Catholics.


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