General Mattis Offers Resignation as Secretary of Defense

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pjbogart
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Re: General Mattis Offers Resignation as Secretary of Defense

Postby pjbogart » Sun Dec 23, 2018 9:21 am

I don't believe that Mattis' resignation, in and of itself, is bad for the country. Surely there are supremely qualified people to take over the job and I have absolute faith that Mattis will help them transition into their new role. The question isn't whether someone else can do the job better, it's whether someone else can use their expertise to guide the President to make wise decisions. It doesn't appear that the job is possible.

If anyone here on this forum were elected President, the first thing they would do is shore up their own weaknesses by surrounding themselves with people more knowledgeable on the subjects. I don't pretend to be one of the world's greatest economists or military tacticians nor do I know how many ppm of lead is safe in our drinking water. My job as President isn't to be the smartest guy in the world, it's to ASSEMBLE the smartest people in the world to help me make better decisions. Donald Trump does not seem up to that task.

The problem with the President's surprise announcement to exit Syria is not that exiting Syria is a terrible decision, it's that the President didn't rely on experts to inform his decision. The decision, by all accounts, was spontaneous and spurred by personal whims. The President has not surrounded himself with the best and brightest, he's surrounded himself with people who will tell him he's right even if he's wrong. Mattis, like many others in various posts in the Administration, was not willing to say "yes" when "no" was the proper response. So he left. That's the problem. The number of qualified individuals informing the President is continually being diluted every time one of them decides the President simply isn't capable of making good decisions.

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Re: General Mattis Offers Resignation as Secretary of Defense

Postby gozer » Sun Dec 23, 2018 10:09 am

how hard can it be to figure out that the syria business was an especially egregious case of the kinds of foreign entanglements george washington was talking about? isis actually had a mission statement including goading the united states amongst others into sending troops so that they can set all of them on fire and thereby reduce their own numbers to somewhere in the 420 to 144 000 range and thereby trigger their version of the apocalypse . . .

and all this imperialism costs money -- what kind of fiscal conservatism is that?

what would people in the united states think if one day mullah omar went on the air telling all the republicans, moderate democrats, and lots of independents to rise up against the government that because obama is a muslim, and a seven-imam shi'ite for that matter, and he killed everybody on his block in chicago with a bomb loaded with 300 kilos of baby powder, and so then sent the taliban over here to kill everybody they saw?

and this when tail gunner joe mc carthy is cackling with delight about the russia "meddling" business as he and göring divvy up their weekly box of 1000 morphine cubes before heading back to their respective circles of hell . . . laughing so hard that it makes them feel a bit better after getting turned down for the workfare project in purgatory for the 72 000th time . . .

how would people feel if

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Re: General Mattis Offers Resignation as Secretary of Defense

Postby Polka_Tulk » Sun Dec 23, 2018 2:03 pm

How to launder the missing $21T back into circulation? Leak copies of World Trade Center vault materials prompting a mad DC rush to ditch KSA under Kashoggi and Yemen cover, impacting on Turkey - Syria dynamics. Uniparty alums such as Graham, the Biden-Nuland clique, the whole of the GOP who lined up to back Hillary in 2016, and the record flood of spooks who ran for Dem ticket offices in 2018, all will be prostituting themselves to open up the pipelines and shift the focus to Ukraine with NATO encouragement, for another military provocation to entrap Russia. It's just business...get over it! Haw Haw Haw!!

https://dod.defense.gov/News/Article/Article/1700380/mattis-actions-in-ukraine-show-russias-word-cannot-be-trusted/
Last edited by Polka_Tulk on Sun Dec 23, 2018 6:03 pm, edited 5 times in total.

Henry Vilas
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Re: General Mattis Offers Resignation as Secretary of Defense

Postby Henry Vilas » Sun Dec 23, 2018 3:04 pm

Trump: You can't quit because I'm firing you instead

Defense Secretary Jim Mattis will leave Jan. 1, rather than the previously announced resignation date of Feb. 28 because of policy disputes with President Donald Trump.

Mattis announced Thursday he was stepping down Feb. 28 because of disagreements with Trump ranging from Syria to global alliances and sparking deep anxiety among lawmakers about national security.

But Trump tweeted Sunday that Mattis would leave sooner. Trump named Patrick Shanahan, the deputy defense secretary, as acting secretary of defense.

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Re: General Mattis Offers Resignation as Secretary of Defense

Postby pjbogart » Sun Dec 23, 2018 7:29 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:Trump: You can't quit because I'm firing you instead

Defense Secretary Jim Mattis will leave Jan. 1, rather than the previously announced resignation date of Feb. 28 because of policy disputes with President Donald Trump.

Mattis announced Thursday he was stepping down Feb. 28 because of disagreements with Trump ranging from Syria to global alliances and sparking deep anxiety among lawmakers about national security.

But Trump tweeted Sunday that Mattis would leave sooner. Trump named Patrick Shanahan, the deputy defense secretary, as acting secretary of defense.


This is just pouring gasoline into a dumpster fire. It makes for quite a spectacle, but it seems like an exceedingly bad idea and there's no real rationale for doing it. Regardless of how you feel about Mattis, he's certainly capable of easing a new Defense Secretary into the position. President Trump got snubbed and he doesn't want the snubber communicating with the new Defense Secretary, which I actually understand. But it isn't putting any of Trump's Republican critics at ease. Hopefully a few of them will stand up and say that Mattis' firing is unacceptable. He needs to continue serving to ensure a smooth transition.

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Re: General Mattis Offers Resignation as Secretary of Defense

Postby gargantua » Sun Dec 23, 2018 10:38 pm

Remember what life was like before 2016? I think about it a lot, and wonder if I could have imagined just how crazy this country could get.
I mean there is batshit crazy stuff going on all the time and it seems like we all just kind of got used to it.

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Re: General Mattis Offers Resignation as Secretary of Defense

Postby gozer » Mon Dec 24, 2018 1:27 am

Polka_Tulk wrote:How to launder the missing $21T back into circulation? Leak copies of World Trade Center vault materials prompting a mad DC rush to ditch KSA under Kashoggi and Yemen cover, impacting on Turkey - Syria dynamics. Uniparty alums such as Graham, the Biden-Nuland clique, the whole of the GOP who lined up to back Hillary in 2016, and the record flood of spooks who ran for Dem ticket offices in 2018, all will be prostituting themselves to open up the pipelines and shift the focus to Ukraine with NATO encouragement, for another military provocation to entrap Russia. It's just business...get over it! Haw Haw Haw!!

https://dod.defense.gov/News/Article/Article/1700380/mattis-actions-in-ukraine-show-russias-word-cannot-be-trusted/


there has been renewed talk in switzerland amongst a motley crew there of not only issuing 5000 chf notes which would convert almost directly into united states dollars but also 10 000, 20 000 50 000 and 100 000 chf notes as well, the latter of which would be ten times the size of the largest note from singapore or brunei and therefore worth a myriad c-notes . . . not only should they do that to get uncle sam and the post-modern techno-industrial megastate and assorted others off the backs of all sorts of people and organisations, but here is a recipe for someone simultaneously winning the nobel economics and peace prizes:

do the same thing with the croatian kuna and hungarian forint and bring back the austrian schilling and use them alongside the euro in bosnia and hercegovina, then form a modest but politically bad-arse customs union amongst that crew, liechtenstein, switzerland, südtirol and their own consulting group within but willing to read the riot act to opec amongst many others . . . after a few years, let the czech republic, slovakia, slovenia, montenegro, serbia, kosovo, serbia, macedonia and poland and germany one province at a time join up if they like and work on oil and shit directly with russia, norway, brazil, switzerland, argentina, chile, madagascar, portugal, italy, spain, and others and south africa, angola, namibia and india about numerous things . . . and pre-print some greeting cards like the ones u send people for their birthday and so on which say "fuck u" in all the necessary languages . . . like "fuck u, -- it is not our problem that u cannot get along with anyone in the near east except the rotten stinking wahabist obscurantist butt-licking infibulators and have a hard-on for bombing things . . . a lot of us have been waiting 100 years or so to say this, look, general/senator/president/secretary arsehole, fuck all u bitching motherfuckers who are always starting shit -- a big fick dich from the collective, u fucken jello-fucking wahabist cracker cork swiffering bastages -- jebo ti pas mater! . . .
and put lassie or snoopy on the front

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Re: General Mattis Offers Resignation as Secretary of Defense

Postby Cadfael » Wed Dec 26, 2018 7:21 pm

gargantua wrote:Remember what life was like before 2016? I think about it a lot, and wonder if I could have imagined just how crazy this country could get.
I mean there is batshit crazy stuff going on all the time and it seems like we all just kind of got used to it.

I pretty much expected everything to fall apart, and everything is pretty much falling apart. I'm not surprised because that's what I figured would happen and I don't feel like standing in front of the handbasket.

I do want to go find everyone who said "It won't be that bad. The checks and balances will still be in place" and force them to read their statements in front of a crowd of random strangers and see what happens.

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Re: General Mattis Offers Resignation as Secretary of Defense

Postby pjbogart » Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:21 pm

Cadfael wrote:I do want to go find everyone who said "It won't be that bad. The checks and balances will still be in place" and force them to read their statements in front of a crowd of random strangers and see what happens.


Honestly, I'm still saying that, though perhaps more cautiously than before. I'd like to find a silver lining in modern GOP politics. What started as rather bizarre hyper-partisan radio shows in the 1980's has become a full-blown network of disinformation. A sizable portion of our population has been convinced that they need to get their news from Republican-approved news sources and they sincerely believe things that are verifiably false just because the GOP wants them to believe false information.

But I'd also like to believe that since the 2010 "Tea Party Revolution" we've seen a lot of cracks in the machinery. I've often described the Teapers as "Frankenstein's Monster" because some Republicans seemed genuinely bothered when it seemed that they had lost control of their mindless experiment. It's no longer responding to reason and it can be dangerous, perhaps even deadly, when the wrong people are whispering in its ear.

I can't say this with absolute confidence, but I think we'll be a better nation if/when people recognize that if you want to know the dangers of CO2 pollution, you ask a climatologist, not an oil or coal company executive. The Republican base will always exist, but as they drift to the right, moderates will seem to drift to the left (even if they're actually just standing in place). This will make it harder and harder for Republicans to win office until they realize that a smaller and smaller bloc is marching with them in lock-step.

Trump isn't the problem. He's a symptom. And he's a symptom that's dangerous enough that healthy people will recognize the sickness and we can come out of it as a healthier nation. And hopefully we can find a way to put a stop to disinformation being treated as free speech. Even Republicans agree that "fake news" is tearing our country apart.

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Re: General Mattis Offers Resignation as Secretary of Defense

Postby DCB » Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:20 pm

pjbogart wrote:
Cadfael wrote:I do want to go find everyone who said "It won't be that bad. The checks and balances will still be in place" and force them to read their statements in front of a crowd of random strangers and see what happens.


Honestly, I'm still saying that, though perhaps more cautiously than before. I'd like to find a silver lining in modern GOP politics.

Where is the silver lining?
pjbogart wrote:But I'd also like to believe that since the 2010 "Tea Party Revolution" we've seen a lot of cracks in the machinery. I've often described the Teapers as "Frankenstein's Monster" because some Republicans seemed genuinely bothered when it seemed that they had lost control of their mindless experiment. It's no longer responding to reason and it can be dangerous, perhaps even deadly, when the wrong people are whispering in its ear.

Once in a while you'll get a Republican to express some vague concerns, but that's about it. They know they can't put Frankenstein's toothpaste back in the tube.
pjbogart wrote:Trump isn't the problem. He's a symptom. And he's a symptom that's dangerous enough that healthy people will recognize the sickness and we can come out of it as a healthier nation.

Right - he's a symptom that there are still lots of very "unhealthy" people, who are now more energized.
The conservatives have really exploited the Trump phenomena to warp our politics. I mean, Kemp blatantly stole the GA governorship a dozen different ways, and its just, well, that's how things work now.

I'd like to think the rest of "healthy" people would wake up and realize what's happening. I'm not very optimistic.

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Re: General Mattis Offers Resignation as Secretary of Defense

Postby snoqueen » Thu Dec 27, 2018 10:58 am

Demographics are not in the Rs favor, and some of them even realize it. They've lost young people, they lost suburban women in the last election, and their base of old white men will quite literally expire over the next decade or so.

What IS in their favor includes the way the Senate is elected and their power to restrict voting and gerrymander their districts and to some extent stack the courts, including state SCs and the USSC. They've done a brilliant job leveraging their statistically minority power, whether we like it or not. The Walker lame duck laws are just an example.

But it won't last forever, dire as it seems right now. My biggest concern is what'll be left when they're gone, especially regarding the environment and universities/public schools.

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Re: General Mattis Offers Resignation as Secretary of Defense

Postby pjbogart » Thu Dec 27, 2018 9:47 pm

DCB wrote:Right - he's a symptom that there are still lots of very "unhealthy" people, who are now more energized.
The conservatives have really exploited the Trump phenomena to warp our politics. I mean, Kemp blatantly stole the GA governorship a dozen different ways, and its just, well, that's how things work now.

I'd like to think the rest of "healthy" people would wake up and realize what's happening. I'm not very optimistic.


Do you think Republicans are more energized? The fringe lunatics are, but they're fed a steady diet of panic every time they turn on their radio. The fact that a Republican had to steal a Statewide election in Georgia doesn't bode well for them.

But you might be right. Maybe I shouldn't be so optimistic. But like Sno says, the Republican base is dwindling. What happens when Georgia, Arizona and Texas go purple? I'd like to say that shifting demographics make it inevitable, but the GOP is pretty savvy... they can always lure Hispanics with their pro-life message. They seem to be heading in the opposite direction at the moment.

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Re: General Mattis Offers Resignation as Secretary of Defense

Postby gargantua » Thu Dec 27, 2018 10:25 pm

There is a lot of infighting within the GOP. The Trump base isn't happy with the party because it isn't giving them what they want. They want the wall. They want Roe v. Wade reversed. They want gay marriage banned again. They have Congress, the Presidency and the Courts, but they're not getting what they want. And they're blaming the big business wing of their own party.
They're basically a noisy lunatic fringe whose source of power is the threat of primarying people who won't humor them.

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Re: General Mattis Offers Resignation as Secretary of Defense

Postby Cadfael » Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:55 am

pjbogart wrote:Do you think Republicans are more energized? The fringe lunatics are, but they're fed a steady diet of panic every time they turn on their radio. The fact that a Republican had to steal a Statewide election in Georgia doesn't bode well for them.

They are always more energized because they are more easily manipulated.

Following Trump ‘off a cliff’: Psychological analysis reveals 14 key traits that explain the president’s die-hard supporters
Despite the title, this doesn't only explain the die-hards. It points out the demographics for each trait and how they deliberately and carefully exploit it. Some want what Trump's giving so they let everything else slide. Some are just easily swayed by showmanship and celebrity. Some really do want to see the world burn. A lot are racists. Some are so isolated they know nothing about other cultures, which breeds fear, and fear is Trump's forte.

The Dunning-Kruger effect; being so accustomed to privilege that equality looks like persecution; National Collective Narcissism; desire to dominate others; authoritarian personality. And my favorite, mentally vulnerable: Trump's crew has researched what language works best on people with "...paranoia and delusions, such as schizophrenia, or are prone to them, like those with schizotypy personalities."

So yeah, all those demographics are small - one might even dub them "minorities" - but Trump and his crew have managed to tap into all of them. And that is a significant number of people. And most of them, through their respective personality disorders, are already really fucking motivated. All they need is direction. And they got it.

I agree some Trumpists have or are beginning to turn. I am not certain yet whether it's a large part of his original base or not.

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Re: General Mattis Offers Resignation as Secretary of Defense

Postby Polka_Tulk » Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:08 pm

snoqueen wrote: My biggest concern is what'll be left when they're gone, especially regarding the environment and universities/public schools.
Those with the means can still escape, expatriate, even live well-off in a world dying under the dominance of US$ hegemony. A friend of mine in SEAsia sent me a video from a friend who took some lost expat into his home and fed him...... scraggly gray beard, ragged shirt, snaggle-tooth, eating cold rice with both hands, looking dazed and confused, so be forewarned.


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