The Suddenly $750 Pill

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.
johnfajardohenry
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 2468
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:22 pm

Re: The Suddenly $750 Pill

Postby johnfajardohenry » Mon May 15, 2017 8:05 am

There was a spate of stories last week with headlines like this:

One-Third of New Drugs Have Safety Issues

http://fortune.com/2017/05/09/fda-appro ... -concerns/

Nearly a Third of Drugs Hit by Safety Issues After FDA Approval
Study found serious side effects often arose after medications OK'd for sale

https://www.clinicalresearch.com/health ... TrHOt.dpuf

One would get the impression that President Obama's, Bush's and Clinton's FDA had been releasing dangerous drugs into the marketplace and killing folks.

OTOH, one could read the actual study:
Key Points

Question Are characteristics of novel therapeutics known at the time of US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approval associated with postmarket safety events, including withdrawal, boxed warnings, and safety communications?

Findings Among 222 novel therapeutics approved by the FDA from 2001 through 2010, 71 (32.0%) were affected by a postmarket safety event. Postmarket safety events were more frequent among biologics, therapeutics indicated for the treatment of psychiatric disease, those receiving accelerated approval, and those with near–regulatory deadline approval.

Meaning Postmarket safety events are common after FDA approval, highlighting the importance of continuous monitoring of the safety of novel therapeutics throughout their life cycle.


http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/ar ... ct/2625319

And find that it is not quite as bad as the fake media would like us to believe.

We can have safer drugs or cheaper drugs. Pick one. There is no way to have both.

The safety/side effect issue also has to be balanced against how many people were helped by the drugs and how much vs how many were hurt and how badly.

John Henry

Henry Vilas
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 27948
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 8:57 pm
Location: Name sez it all
Contact:

Re: The Suddenly $750 Pill

Postby Henry Vilas » Wed May 31, 2017 7:09 pm

Mylan's EpiPen price hikes made it the face of corporate greed last summer. Now, the drug maker is lavishing a top exec with an eye-popping pay package.

Despite the EpiPen scandal and a slumping stock price, Mylan (MYL) rewarded chairman and former CEO Robert Coury with $98 million for 2016.


The free market solution.

johnfajardohenry
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 2468
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:22 pm

Re: The Suddenly $750 Pill

Postby johnfajardohenry » Sun Jun 11, 2017 12:46 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:
Mylan's EpiPen price hikes made it the face of corporate greed last summer. Now, the drug maker is lavishing a top exec with an eye-popping pay package.[/url]


Hardly a free market, Henry. US Pharmaceuticals are one of the most unfree markets in the world. Mylan perhaps worse than others:

Govt prevents other companies from making Epipen and other generics. They can do it in theory but the hoops and barriers that have been erected make it extremely difficult and uneconomic in practice.

Mylan in particular with: Daughter head of the company, mother in charge of getting Epipen into all schools (Why can't school nurses use a syringe? $) and papa in the Senate overseeing the whole scam.

Free market? Bullshit.

John Henry

johnfajardohenry
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 2468
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:22 pm

Re: The Suddenly $750 Pill

Postby johnfajardohenry » Sun Jun 11, 2017 12:52 pm

Henry, you have been very vocal about the high price of US drugs. Less vocal about the high cost but the two are tied together.

So perhaps this will make a Trump supporter out of you:

Remarks by Scott Gottlieb, M.D.
FDA All Hands Meeting
May 15, 2017
Silver Spring, MD

...
For one thing, too many consumers are priced out of the medicines they need. Now, I know FDA doesn’t play a direct role in drug pricing. But we still need to be taking meaningful steps to get more low cost alternatives to the market, to increase competition, and to give consumers more options. This is especially true when it comes to complex drugs and biosimilars.

We also need to take steps to make sure the generic drug process isn’t being inappropriately gamed to delay competition and disadvantage consumers. I hope to have much more to say on this topic in the coming weeks.
...

https://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Speeches/ucm558566.htm

johnfajardohenry
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 2468
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:22 pm

Re: The Suddenly $750 Pill

Postby johnfajardohenry » Sun Jun 11, 2017 12:54 pm

See this also:

https://pharmaphorum.com/news/gottlieb- ... ce-abuses/

I have more to say on this but I have to take my wife to vote. (I already did)

John Henry

Henry Vilas
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 27948
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 8:57 pm
Location: Name sez it all
Contact:

Re: The Suddenly $750 Pill

Postby Henry Vilas » Sun Jun 11, 2017 1:06 pm

Tell us how pure laissez-faire capitalism will reduce prescription costs. Use real world examples. Same for health care in general.

jonnygothispen
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 7954
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:53 pm
Location: location, location

Re: The Suddenly $750 Pill

Postby jonnygothispen » Sun Jun 11, 2017 3:07 pm

Just curious. How much in profits did big pharma make last year? What's their average CEO pay?

OTOH, homeopathic cures are always tied up in a bureaucratic mess because of Big Pharma. 11 years ago, I was part of a ragweed allergy study. It worked like a charm. It worked so well, in fact, that my severe allergy was virtually nonexistent the next couple years despite no medication, and diminished for 3 more after that. A drop of liquid ragweed extract under the tongue every morning. Slight itching in the mouth & throat only immediately afterwards, and slightly dry eyes most if the day... Approved in Europe decades ago, still not approved here.

johnfajardohenry
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 2468
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:22 pm

Re: The Suddenly $750 Pill

Postby johnfajardohenry » Sun Jun 11, 2017 3:57 pm

jonnygothispen wrote:Just curious. How much in profits did big pharma make last year? What's their average CEO pay?


Why don't you look it up for us? Unless that was a rhetorical question and you don't care about the answer. More importantly, how much did they make compared to other companies of similar size? Profit as a percentage of sales or whatever other measure you like.

Ditto CEOs. How much did they make compared to CEOs of similar size non-pharma companies?

OTOH, homeopathic cures are always tied up in a bureaucratic mess because of Big Pharma.


Do you mean homeopathic in the sense that the active ingredient is diluted so much that it is undetectable and it is the solvent's memory of the ingredient that supposedly cause the cure? As long as they don't make a claim of actual therapeutic effect, I don't think they are regulated at all since they are neither drug, food nor cosmetic.

OTOH, if you mean an actual drug compound, why not go to a compounding pharmacy and have them make it for you? That's not regulated by the FDA.

I really don't understand what you are talking about.

Approved in Europe decades ago, still not approved here.


Perhaps you could share the name here? I am curious why you would not be able to buy any homeopathic drug since they are nothing but solvent and the memory of a molecule.

John Henry

johnfajardohenry
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 2468
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:22 pm

Re: The Suddenly $750 Pill

Postby johnfajardohenry » Sun Jun 11, 2017 4:00 pm

jonnygothispen wrote:OTOH, homeopathic cures


Why are you so anti-science?

Homeopathy or homoeopathy is a system of alternative medicine created in 1796 by Samuel Hahnemann, based on his doctrine of like cures like (similia similibus curentur), a claim that a substance that causes the symptoms of a disease in healthy people would cure similar symptoms in sick people.

The preparations are manufactured using a process of homeopathic dilution, in which a chosen substance is repeatedly diluted in alcohol or distilled water, each time with the containing vessel being bashed against an elastic material, (commonly a leather-bound book).[9] Dilution typically continues well past the point where no molecules of the original substance remain.
...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy


Emph added

Is this what you mean by homeopathy, jonny?

John Henry
Last edited by johnfajardohenry on Sun Jun 11, 2017 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

johnfajardohenry
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 2468
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:22 pm

Re: The Suddenly $750 Pill

Postby johnfajardohenry » Sun Jun 11, 2017 4:09 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:Tell us how pure laissez-faire capitalism will reduce prescription costs. Use real world examples. Same for health care in general.


US, prior to about the 70s. Maybe even into the 80s. Lots of small pharma companies making lots of versions of the same drug. The big consolidation started in late 80s. Now 4-5 companies make 70-80% of all drugs used in the US. Hardly a free market.

$2bn is a lot of money to develop a drug but, since they can use that as a barrier to keep out competitors they can recoup it in higher prices AND make higher profits on top of that.

Perhaps you could show us examples where competition does not drive prices down?

Here's more on generics, competition and pricing

http://www.oecd.org/daf/competition/gen ... tition.htm

John Henry

jonnygothispen
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 7954
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:53 pm
Location: location, location

Re: The Suddenly $750 Pill

Postby jonnygothispen » Sun Jun 11, 2017 4:58 pm

johnfajardohenry supports Republicans + Pharma supports Republicans by a 6 to 1 margin = johnfarhenry supports pharma.

Coincidence? I think not!

... 6 to 1: https://www.statnews.com/2016/11/02/fea ... p-coffers/

jonnygothispen
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 7954
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:53 pm
Location: location, location

Re: The Suddenly $750 Pill

Postby jonnygothispen » Sun Jun 11, 2017 5:02 pm

"How much of big pharma's massive profits are used to influence politicians?"

http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/3301 ... oliticians

Roy
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 7447
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 11:31 pm

Re: The Suddenly $750 Pill

Postby Roy » Sun Jun 11, 2017 5:27 pm

jonnygothispen wrote:"How much of big pharma's massive profits are used to influence politicians?"

http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/3301 ... oliticians

Quite a bit of profit/influence. However the left will only believe it is political influence bought if it is something they want to believe. This is why the left is big on political science, and brain dead on scientific science.

Cadfael
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 3733
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2016 11:46 am

Re: The Suddenly $750 Pill

Postby Cadfael » Sun Jun 11, 2017 6:34 pm

When you got nothing, use insults.

johnfajardohenry
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 2468
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:22 pm

Re: The Suddenly $750 Pill

Postby johnfajardohenry » Sun Jun 11, 2017 6:44 pm

jonnygothispen wrote:johnfajardohenry supports Republicans + Pharma supports Republicans by a 6 to 1 margin = johnfarhenry supports pharma.

Coincidence? I think not!


I "support" pharma? In what sense of the word "support"?

I think pharma prices are too high. I think the reason they are too high is that costs are too high. That drives prices up by

1) Making it expensive to carry the regulatory burden. These costs must be added into the selling price.

2) Making it prohibitive to compete with the big 5-6 players because of regulatory costs of entry and approval. This reduces competition which increases costs.

President Trump appointed Gottlieb who has long been saying more or less the same things and who is saying it is his goal to reduce the regulatory burden. Particularly for approval of generic versions of existing drugs. (See the links above)

Big Pharma will fight him tooth and nail. Let's see if he is able to accomplish his goals. If he is, we should see significantly lower costs of generic drugs by 2021. New drugs, because many are already in the pipeline, may take a bit longer to to show significant reduced costs, but we should see a steady downward trend.

John Henry


Return to “National Politics & Government”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests