The Immigration Debate

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.
Cadfael
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Re: The Immigration Debate

Postby Cadfael » Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:28 pm

Indianapolis church puts holy family in ‘ICE detention’ in bold statement about immigration policy
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Christ Church Cathedral put up the display at their lawn on Monument Circle overnight. It shows statues of Mary, Joseph and Jesus in a cage.

“On our lawn tonight we placed The Holy Family…in #ICE detention,” the church wrote on its Twitter page.

The display has a sign saying #EveryFamilyIsHoly and its Spanish equivalent, #CadaFamiliaEsSagrada.

penquin
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Re: The Immigration Debate

Postby penquin » Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:28 pm


Henry Vilas
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Re: The Immigration Debate

Postby Henry Vilas » Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:44 pm

Trump Moves to Deport Vietnam War Refugees

Are aged Holocaust survivors next on his list?

gargantua
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Re: The Immigration Debate

Postby gargantua » Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:47 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:Trump Moves to Deport Vietnam War Refugees

Are aged Holocaust survivors next on his list?

I think he'll go after Iraqis and Afghanis who helped us first.

IU2Bmanoletters
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Re: The Immigration Debate

Postby IU2Bmanoletters » Sat Dec 15, 2018 8:03 pm

I thought US immigration policy was done being blatantly, flagrantly RACIST, down to the letter of the law. Just kidding - said policy is hardly anything BUT racist.
"Trump push to deport Vietnam War refugees scalds California GOP:"
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/12/ ... 4799639970

IU2Bmanoletters
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Re: The Immigration Debate

Postby IU2Bmanoletters » Fri Dec 28, 2018 4:55 pm

HURRAH! for Rep. Gutierrez!
"Lawmaker calls Trump official 'liar,' storms out:"

Cadfael
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Re: The Immigration Debate

Postby Cadfael » Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:05 pm

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Paleo2
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Re: The Immigration Debate

Postby Paleo2 » Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:17 pm

There is a huge problem with trying to get a resolution to the border wall issue.

The Wall has become, for many people on both the left and right, a religious issue. Don’t believe me? Look at some of the recent posts, showing what churches have put up.

There was a recent article in The Atlantic about how an Anti-Racism religion has popped up. Sort of like the Anti-Communist religion of the McCarthy era, there are those who spend more time hunting down apostates, heretics and blasphemers than doing anything that could actually help the lives of minorities.

At some point, support of ANYONE who wants to be in the US (or any other predominantly white industrial first world nation) had taken on religious significance. It was as recent as 2015 that people on the left could support restrictions on immigration without being considered Racist. Bernie Sanders was opposed to mass immigration. As many Democrats favored The Wall as opposed it. (About 45% in favor, 45% against with about 10% undecided. ). Similarly, one could be a good conservative Republican and be against The Wall.

As soon as Trump was in favor of The Wall, it became one of the core tenants of the Anti-Racism religion to oppose The Wall. Support among Democrats dropped to 20%. In other words, 25% of all Democrats changed their minds on this issue in an extremely short period of time.

These days Democratic leaders are calling the same platforms they supported a few years ago “racist”, “immoral”, or “white supremicist”.

Similarly, construction of The Wall has become almost a religious duty among Republicans.

AFAIK, there haven’t been any major engineering studies showing The Wall to be more or less effective during that time.

Which leads us to this:
If the Democrats agree to ANY funding of The Wall, they will have committed what they are calling an evil Racist act.

If the Republicans agree to a budget which excludes funding for The Wall, they will have committed what they are calling an evil Treasonous act.

Could cooler heads prevail?

Some on the Left have suggested agreement with funding in return to protection for DACA recipients. Some on the Right have suggested agreeing to NOT funding The Wall in return for universal e-verify.

So compromise is possible. Another compromise would be just barley enough funding for both sides to proclaim victory.

If the politicians really believed what they are saying, compromise would be darn near impossible.

Henry Vilas
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Re: The Immigration Debate

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:48 pm

Paleo2 wrote: ...an Anti-Racism religion has popped up.


Mainline monothestic religions have given lip service to anti-racism for millennia. Too bad we now needs a separate religion. Of course there were always exceptions, especially concerning slavery.

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Re: The Immigration Debate

Postby gargantua » Mon Dec 31, 2018 3:45 pm

My opposition to the Wall is, as originally envisioned by Trump,
1. Won't be paid for by Mexico like he promised
2. Would be enormously expensive and environmentally harmful
3. Wouldn't really keep everybody out anyway, and
4. Trump's racist base supports it.

I admit that 4 is a big motivator for me. When I think about a Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, angry, old, ignorant white male supported monument to bigotry and fear, it isn't hard to pick the other side of the argument. I do support a lawful immigration system that includes e-verify and protection for the Dreamers. I would happily support measures that are humane, and will actually work.

Cadfael
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Re: The Immigration Debate

Postby Cadfael » Mon Dec 31, 2018 4:33 pm

Paleo2 wrote:Which leads us to this:
If the Democrats agree to ANY funding of The Wall, they will have committed what they are calling an evil Racist act.

If the Republicans agree to a budget which excludes funding for The Wall, they will have committed what they are calling an evil Treasonous act.

Could cooler heads prevail?

Can I assume you believe we should allow some funding for the wall in the hopes that this would cause the Republicans and their base to begin working together with the liberals towards the greater good of the country?

Henry Vilas
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Re: The Immigration Debate

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Dec 31, 2018 4:34 pm

Lots of right-wing ranchers with properties on the border don't like the idea of the wall. They don't want to lose their land due to eminent domain "takings."

Henry Vilas
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Re: The Immigration Debate

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Dec 31, 2018 5:04 pm

At least one congressional Republican is finally standing up to Trump.
Rep. Walter Jones (R-N.C.) said that President Trump should considering tapping into his personal funds to help pay for a wall along the southern border.

"If Mexico isn't going to be made to pay for a wall, that means funds must be found internally," Walter said in a statement Friday.

"As a wealthy man, the president might consider pledging some of his own funds as well. Whatever it takes, just so long as we don't add to the debt that is bankrupting our great country.

DCB
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Re: The Immigration Debate

Postby DCB » Mon Dec 31, 2018 5:28 pm

The wall is stupid, period.

Let's spend our $25B on reparations to Guatemala, Nicaragua, and El Salvador for Reagan's support of terrorism. That would actually be productive.

Cadfael
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Re: The Immigration Debate

Postby Cadfael » Mon Dec 31, 2018 5:31 pm

I would join an anti-stupid religion. But I bet it would splinter into violent factions in no time.


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