The Immigration Debate

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.
gargantua
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 11184
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2002 1:30 pm
Location: Madison

Re: The Immigration Debate

Postby gargantua » Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:32 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:Now Trump, as Commander-in-Chief, says he is considering allowing the 15,000 troops being sent to the border to fire on immigrants who throw rocks or stones.

Well, if you're creating imaginary threats, you might as well go all in. Immigrants don't have a history of that behavior. It doesn't even make any sense. I would like to request asylum in your country, so I'm coming to the border to throw rocks at it. Jesus H. Christ almighty, his base believes this stuff. And we're supposed to be civil?

penquin
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 3067
Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:19 pm
Contact:

Re: The Immigration Debate

Postby penquin » Thu Nov 01, 2018 5:59 pm

Someone should let Garg know that several news sources have reported about an incident involving members of the caravan throwing rocks and sticks at the police & soldiers in Mexico, and that was what President Trump was responding to.

Henry Vilas
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 27948
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 8:57 pm
Location: Name sez it all
Contact:

Re: The Immigration Debate

Postby Henry Vilas » Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:16 pm

Trump was just playing political theater. But thanks for you justification. I'd have thought you would support the limitations imposed on the Posse Comitatus Act.

Paleo2
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 744
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:45 am

Re: The Immigration Debate

Postby Paleo2 » Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:53 am

There is nothing in penquin’s post that contradicts the facts, nor is there anything that contradicts your opinions.

Fact: some of the migrants did throw stones at the Mexican border

Fact: Trump threatened to have the military fire on them.

Fact: US laws and military regulations severely restrict what the military can do at the border.

Fact: soldiers are supposed to obey lawful orders. Emphasis on lawful.

Opinion: Trump is grandstanding on this issue. I happen to agree with this. I think he sees the caravan as a political opportunity rather than a problem to be solved.

My opinion is that illegal immigration is a real problem, which Trump uses to get votes. I consider Trump to be a Trojan Horse. He claims to be a nationalist and a populist, but he caters to the whims of the elite globalists. Bernie Sanders, OTOH, really is a populist and nationalist.

Trump is more of a nationalist than either Bush, but that is not a difficult bar to jump over.

Cadfael
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 3733
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2016 11:46 am

Re: The Immigration Debate

Postby Cadfael » Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:47 am

Paleo2 wrote:He claims to be a nationalist and a populist, but he caters to the whims of the elite globalists.

He embraces whatever values the great unwashed wants. I would change "the whims of the elite globalists" to "whoever buys his condos" but otherwise yeah.

He'd be a feminist human rights activist pro-choice friend of immigrants if it made him a better profit. But right now the money's in fear, hatred, Rice Christianity, and guns.

Edit: Maybe Cafeteria Christianity is a better term.

Paleo2
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 744
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:45 am

Re: The Immigration Debate

Postby Paleo2 » Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:12 pm

Cadfael wrote:
Paleo2 wrote:He claims to be a nationalist and a populist, but he caters to the whims of the elite globalists.

He embraces whatever values the great unwashed wants. I would change "the whims of the elite globalists" to "whoever buys his condos" but otherwise yeah.

He'd be a feminist human rights activist pro-choice friend of immigrants if it made him a better profit. But right now the money's in fear, hatred, Rice Christianity, and guns.

Edit: Maybe Cafeteria Christianity is a better term.


Cafeteria Christianity seems more on the spot, for Trump and his fans.

They don’t seem to care about adultery, which Jesus Himself considered a very great sin.

Ducatista
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 5942
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2004 11:31 am
Location: 53703

Re: The Immigration Debate

Postby Ducatista » Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:25 pm

penquin wrote:...and that was what President Trump was responding to.

He sure was! I particularly liked this part of his response:
"Anybody throwing stones, rocks — like they did to Mexico and the Mexican military, Mexican police, where they badly hurt police and soldiers of Mexico — we will consider that a firearm,” the president said. "Because there's not much difference, where you get hit in the face with a rock."

Nope, not much difference at all.

Weather Bob
Forum Addict
Posts: 264
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 1:13 pm

Re: The Immigration Debate

Postby Weather Bob » Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:58 pm

And surprise! What the President of the United States says does actually matter:

Nigeria's army has posted a video of US President Donald Trump saying soldiers would shoot migrants throwing stones to justify opening fire on a Shiite group this week


Less than 24 hours later, and others are already quoting Trump to justify their own bad actions.

Henry Vilas
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 27948
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 8:57 pm
Location: Name sez it all
Contact:

Re: The Immigration Debate

Postby Henry Vilas » Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:14 pm


gozer
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 5881
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2002 1:35 pm
Location: everywhere
Contact:

Re: The Immigration Debate

Postby gozer » Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:22 pm

Paleo2 wrote:
Cadfael wrote:
Paleo2 wrote:He claims to be a nationalist and a populist, but he caters to the whims of the elite globalists.

He embraces whatever values the great unwashed wants. I would change "the whims of the elite globalists" to "whoever buys his condos" but otherwise yeah.

He'd be a feminist human rights activist pro-choice friend of immigrants if it made him a better profit. But right now the money's in fear, hatred, Rice Christianity, and guns.

Edit: Maybe Cafeteria Christianity is a better term.


Cafeteria Christianity seems more on the spot, for Trump and his fans.

They don’t seem to care about adultery, which Jesus Himself considered a very great sin.


if any two of them can agree on what it means -- seems to be whatever is convenient for the person at the time . . . i myself remember j c saying give unto caesar the first stone or something . . .

for a minute there i thought it had something to do with rice krispies*, rice university, or donna rice, the person with whom biden got caught on the achille lauro, or something of the same sort. . .


---
* snap, crackle, lead us not into temptation

pjbogart
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 7661
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 4:57 pm

Re: The Immigration Debate

Postby pjbogart » Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:05 pm

The most disturbing part of this story is that you can relax. It's all political theater. Red meat for the base. But the only reason to put troops on the border is as a threat of violence. Since when was the threat of violence acceptable political theater?

Four sources with direct knowledge of how plans for the troop deployment—dubbed Operation Faithful Patriot—came together said that the initial directive to send troops to the border came directly from the president’s office, known in Pentagon parlance as National Command Authority, which would mean President Donald Trump or Defense Secretary James Mattis.

The sources added that even if Mattis, a former U.S. Marine general, had been delegated authority for the operation, it would still have required permission from the commander in chief. But ultimately, the decision to move forward with the southern-border deployment was unexpected by military planners.

Speaking to Newsweek on condition of anonymity, as they are not authorized to speak to the media, the four U.S. military sources said senior leaders within the Pentagon had derided the deployment not only as a significant waste of taxpayer dollars but as running counter to military readiness, but that a minority lauded the Trump administration’s hardline crackdown on immigration


https://www.newsweek.com/trump-administ ... ps-1198043

Is that a political contribution? Wasting taxpayer dollars to scare up some votes for an upcoming election? Is "military readiness" better served when those troops are training or deployed somewhere useful? What about Trump's grandiose claims that he's ready to send 15,000 troops to the border?

gargantua
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 11184
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2002 1:30 pm
Location: Madison

Re: The Immigration Debate

Postby gargantua » Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:41 pm

It's abuse of power. One of the impeachment counts against Richard Nixon. The particulars went different then, but deploying the military prematurely against a potential if not nonexistent threat is a clear abuse of power. The troops aren't needed there now and probably wouldn't be in any event. But there's an election! This is 3rd world banana republic stuff.

pjbogart
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 7661
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 4:57 pm

Re: The Immigration Debate

Postby pjbogart » Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:44 pm

gargantua wrote:It's abuse of power. One of the impeachment counts against Richard Nixon. The particulars went different then, but deploying the military prematurely against a potential if not nonexistent threat is a clear abuse of power. The troops aren't needed there now and probably wouldn't be in any event. But there's an election! This is 3rd world banana republic stuff.


Donald Trump is a cunt. Sorry. That's kind of tongue-in-cheek, but it's also an accurate representation of my feelings. If the word is so awful that it should never be used, then it accurately describes the current denizen of the Oval Office. He's a cunt.

gozer
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 5881
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2002 1:35 pm
Location: everywhere
Contact:

Re: The Immigration Debate

Postby gozer » Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:57 am

Ducatista wrote:
penquin wrote:...and that was what President Trump was responding to.

He sure was! I particularly liked this part of his response:
"Anybody throwing stones, rocks — like they did to Mexico and the Mexican military, Mexican police, where they badly hurt police and soldiers of Mexico — we will consider that a firearm,” the president said. "Because there's not much difference, where you get hit in the face with a rock."

Nope, not much difference at all.



a thrown rock or stick becomes a firearm how? the thrower washed down some gunpowder with a glass of water before heading off to the scrum with the troops and that gives them the muscle power to throw the projectile?

Shorty
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 4984
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2003 12:53 pm

Re: The Immigration Debate

Postby Shorty » Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:49 pm



Return to “National Politics & Government”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests