What's wrong with the GOP, anyway?

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.
Henry Vilas
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Re: What's wrong with the GOP, anyway?

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:43 pm


gozer
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Re: What's wrong with the GOP, anyway?

Postby gozer » Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:20 am

Henry Vilas wrote:GOP senator facing criticism over 'public hanging' remark

Mississippi Republican Sen. Cindy Hyde-Smith joked about going "front row" to a "public hanging" in a video posted to Twitter on Sunday morning, prompting her African-American opponent to call her comment "reprehensible."

"If he invited me to a public hanging, I'd be on the front row," the senator is heard saying in the video.
Hyde-Smith faces former Democratic Rep. Mike Espy in a runoff election on November 27 for the Mississippi Senate seat.


Her comments go well beyond the typical GOP racist dog whistling.


if who invited her to a public hanging?

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Re: What's wrong with the GOP, anyway?

Postby Paleo2 » Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:37 am

gozer wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:GOP senator facing criticism over 'public hanging' remark

Mississippi Republican Sen. Cindy Hyde-Smith joked about going "front row" to a "public hanging" in a video posted to Twitter on Sunday morning, prompting her African-American opponent to call her comment "reprehensible."

"If he invited me to a public hanging, I'd be on the front row," the senator is heard saying in the video.
Hyde-Smith faces former Democratic Rep. Mike Espy in a runoff election on November 27 for the Mississippi Senate seat.


Her comments go well beyond the typical GOP racist dog whistling.


if who invited her to a public hanging?


Some man.

She seems to like them well hung.

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Re: What's wrong with the GOP, anyway?

Postby Zoti Bemba » Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:20 am

From further down in the Channel3000 article:

In the video, Hyde-Smith appeared to be speaking during a campaign event about the support of a Mississippi rancher.

The line drew applause and laughter from the crowd. The short video clip was met with immediate backlash online and had more than 2 million page views as of late Sunday night.

Hyde-Smith issued a statement on Sunday after the video posted, saying, "In a comment on Nov. 2, I referred to accepting an invitation to a speaking engagement. In referencing the one who invited me, I used an exaggerated expression of regard, and any attempt to turn this into a negative connotation is ridiculous."


So I guess this would be like saying "If he butchered a steer he would give me the filet" (or whatever people consider to be the prime cut these days). Or, if we wanted to acknowledge the nativist yokel element, "If he fried a chicken he would make sure I got the Pope's nose."

Of course public hangings have been out in Wisconsin since 1853, after we botched our first and only attempt at one. Senator Hyde-Smith probably wouldn't have been very happy, or seen it as much of an "expression of regard," to be in the front row for that one.

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Re: What's wrong with the GOP, anyway?

Postby Ducatista » Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:43 pm

Zoti Bemba wrote:So I guess this would be like saying "If he butchered a steer he would give me the filet" (or whatever people consider to be the prime cut these days). Or, if we wanted to acknowledge the nativist yokel element, "If he fried a chicken he would make sure I got the Pope's nose."

I think you've got the regard flowing in the wrong direction.

She didn't mean he'd get her a good seat. She meant that she holds him in such high esteem that whatever he invited her to, she'd not only go, she'd plunk herself down in the front row.

Or not? Either way, it's mindbogglingly inappropriate.

My mom's family occasionally used a hanging expression, but I'm pretty sure "You'd complain if they hung you with a new rope" doesn't have racial overtones. I still wouldn't bust it out in Mississippi.

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Re: What's wrong with the GOP, anyway?

Postby pjbogart » Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:51 pm

Ducatista wrote:My mom's family occasionally used a hanging expression, but I'm pretty sure "You'd complain if they hung you with a new rope" doesn't have racial overtones.


I don't know... let's take it for test drive!

Obama would complain if they hung him with a new rope.

Yep, sounds pretty racist.

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Re: What's wrong with the GOP, anyway?

Postby Ducatista » Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:12 pm

pjbogart wrote:[pointless ugliness]

Why on earth would you post that?

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Re: What's wrong with the GOP, anyway?

Postby pjbogart » Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:50 pm

Ducatista wrote:
pjbogart wrote:[pointless ugliness]

Why on earth would you post that?


I think the point is that ANY reference to "hanging" directed at a black person is going to sound offensive.

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Re: What's wrong with the GOP, anyway?

Postby Ducatista » Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:53 pm

pjbogart wrote:I think the point is that ANY reference to "hanging" directed at a black person is going to sound offensive.

Right. Hence:

Ducatista wrote:I still wouldn't bust it out in Mississippi.

Wasn't graphic enough for you, I guess?

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Re: What's wrong with the GOP, anyway?

Postby Cadfael » Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:55 pm

Salon's Amanda Marcotte has an article in Alternet. It's not an attempt to debate or list the reasons that half the country has gone insane. Instead she just assumes you already know it and works from there. There's some specific, useful coping and resistance mechanisms in there.
In truth, it doesn't actually require much in the way of grace or wits to gaslight liberals. All it requires is a shameless willingness to say obviously false things, and then watch your opponents -- still romantically attached to the idea of reasoned debate -- grow increasingly desperate in insisting that objective reality should inform one's opinions.

And people asked how do you talk to people like that?
The answer is simple: You can't. These are autonomous adults who have decided that loyalty to Trump and hatred of liberals matters more than the truth. There are no cool psychological tricks one can use that are likely to convince them to readjust their values system.

Some of us had already figured that out. Others still wanted direction.
The first thing liberals and journalists should do is find ways to speak the truth without inviting conservatives to troll them with "debate" about it — debate that will inevitably just be the pitting of lies against truths, leaving those who still believe in reason frustrated and giving conservatives endless opportunities to gloat about their triggering talents.

There are a variety of tools that accomplish this, but the primary one is to avoid speaking to liars and instead speak about them.

Emphasis mine.
Brevity is key here. Whenever you're explaining, you're losing. For instance, it was a waste of time going frame by frame through that Jim Acosta video to prove he did nothing wrong, since everyone who claimed to believe he had done something terrible was lying in order to troll the left. Journalists would have done better to present the fact that Acosta did nothing wrong as self-evident truth, which it was, and move on to addressing the real story, which is how Trump uses lies to advance his agenda.

She's got so many great quotes in there.
the maxim to live by is that you can't reason someone out of a belief they didn't reason themselves into. Evidence, facts and rational argument are all pretty useless when you're dealing with a person who rejects the value of all those things.

For most conservatives who play this game, they "win" either by baiting a liberal into a pointless and unwinnable debate or by making the liberal flustered and angry. So don't reward them by giving them either.

I find that making it personal can often be really helpful. If a conservative in my life praises Trump for trolling the press with his "enemy of the people" language, I might ask that person if they really think that I am a force for evil and that I should be censored, or perhaps imprisoned.

Be calm and dispassionate, however, and state things matter-of-factly. Any sign of emotion will be taken as evidence of "triggering" and is likely encourage to encourage still more trolling behavior. But I've personally had a lot of luck with calm but adamant shaming, perhaps because it makes behavior the focal point, rather than some pointless debate over what the facts are.

I agree with her that it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better and we have no control over what they say about us when we leave the room. And of course neither do they.

Henry Vilas
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Re: What's wrong with the GOP, anyway?

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:00 pm

Republican governor blames zombie shows for gun violence.
Gun regulation isn't the solution to mass shootings in the U.S., Kentucky Gov. Matt Bevin said Tuesday, and America's culture of death, illustrated by Americans' obsession with zombie television shows, is more to blame.

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Re: What's wrong with the GOP, anyway?

Postby Cadfael » Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:45 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:Republican governor blames zombie shows for gun violence.
Gun regulation isn't the solution to mass shootings in the U.S., Kentucky Gov. Matt Bevin said Tuesday, and America's culture of death, illustrated by Americans' obsession with zombie television shows, is more to blame.

I'm perfectly willing to buy into the culture of death thing. And in fact I also think the obsession with zombies in general is an illustration of it.

It also says a lot about what sort of fantasy worlds we prefer rather than the lives we're living, but that's not the same thing. We do indeed have a culture of violence and death and it's one of the main reasons we need stronger regulations. First let's minimize the body count and then get all those group therapy sessions going.

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Re: What's wrong with the GOP, anyway?

Postby Cadfael » Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:41 pm

Image

gozer
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Re: What's wrong with the GOP, anyway?

Postby gozer » Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:30 pm

wasn't that carter one for his doctor or someone writing a pseudonym of his secretary on a schedule ii controlled substance prescription for methaqualone? isn't that usually a municipal health code violation? if so it's not at the same level as using the constitution for toilet paper . . . which, for example, the d e a does on a regular basis . . .

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Re: What's wrong with the GOP, anyway?

Postby Weather Bob » Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:51 pm

Cadfael wrote:Salon's Amanda Marcotte has an article in Alternet. It's not an attempt to debate or list the reasons that half the country has gone insane. Instead she just assumes you already know it and works from there. There's some specific, useful coping and resistance mechanisms in there.
In truth, it doesn't actually require much in the way of grace or wits to gaslight liberals. All it requires is a shameless willingness to say obviously false things, and then watch your opponents -- still romantically attached to the idea of reasoned debate -- grow increasingly desperate in insisting that objective reality should inform one's opinions.

And people asked how do you talk to people like that?
The answer is simple: You can't. These are autonomous adults who have decided that loyalty to Trump and hatred of liberals matters more than the truth. There are no cool psychological tricks one can use that are likely to convince them to readjust their values system.

Some of us had already figured that out. Others still wanted direction.
The first thing liberals and journalists should do is find ways to speak the truth without inviting conservatives to troll them with "debate" about it — debate that will inevitably just be the pitting of lies against truths, leaving those who still believe in reason frustrated and giving conservatives endless opportunities to gloat about their triggering talents.

There are a variety of tools that accomplish this, but the primary one is to avoid speaking to liars and instead speak about them.

Emphasis mine.
Brevity is key here. Whenever you're explaining, you're losing. For instance, it was a waste of time going frame by frame through that Jim Acosta video to prove he did nothing wrong, since everyone who claimed to believe he had done something terrible was lying in order to troll the left. Journalists would have done better to present the fact that Acosta did nothing wrong as self-evident truth, which it was, and move on to addressing the real story, which is how Trump uses lies to advance his agenda.

She's got so many great quotes in there.
the maxim to live by is that you can't reason someone out of a belief they didn't reason themselves into. Evidence, facts and rational argument are all pretty useless when you're dealing with a person who rejects the value of all those things.

For most conservatives who play this game, they "win" either by baiting a liberal into a pointless and unwinnable debate or by making the liberal flustered and angry. So don't reward them by giving them either.

I find that making it personal can often be really helpful. If a conservative in my life praises Trump for trolling the press with his "enemy of the people" language, I might ask that person if they really think that I am a force for evil and that I should be censored, or perhaps imprisoned.

Be calm and dispassionate, however, and state things matter-of-factly. Any sign of emotion will be taken as evidence of "triggering" and is likely encourage to encourage still more trolling behavior. But I've personally had a lot of luck with calm but adamant shaming, perhaps because it makes behavior the focal point, rather than some pointless debate over what the facts are.

I agree with her that it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better and we have no control over what they say about us when we leave the room. And of course neither do they.

Hey, thanks for posting that. Lots of insightful comments there.


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