They admit Russia meddled

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Weather Bob
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Re: They admit Russia meddled

Postby Weather Bob » Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:08 pm

"Evil" is a religious concept. I'm going to vote for whichever candidate seems like the best to me among the set of those that have a realistic chance of winning ... because doing anything else (not voting, or voting for Jill Stein or Donald Duck or myself) would [slightly] increase the likelihood that the worst candidate will win. Which is exactly what happened in 2000 and again in 2016, with terrible consequences each time.

But where I part ways with Cadfael and others here is that if you make a different choice I'm not going to yell at you. You're free to do what you want. I'm not being sarcastic or ironic, I really mean it. People like to argue about this, but from what I can tell it only cements people in their opinions. So when 2020 comes around, if you decide to throw away your vote, for whatever reason, go ahead. I wouldn't feel right doing that, but that's OK.

DCB
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Re: They admit Russia meddled

Postby DCB » Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:19 pm

Weather Bob wrote:But where I part ways with Cadfael and others here is that if you make a different choice I'm not going to yell at you. You're free to do what you want. I'm not being sarcastic or ironic, I really mean it. People like to argue about this, but from what I can tell it only cements people in their opinions.

This is why the "counterfactuals" above are completely unrealistic.

Are you, Weather_Bob, going to make a protest vote in 2020? What if I yell at you for supporting evil? What if I ask you nicely?

OK, what if we had a well-funded, well-organized anti-war movement, that had a great messaging campaign, and showed lots of support all over the country - Red states, Blue states, rural, urban ... And then a third party candidate with a history of political successes entered the Presidential race?

Are you rethinking your position now?

Probably not.

#GillibrandWarren2020!

jonnygothispen
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Re: They admit Russia meddled

Postby jonnygothispen » Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:50 pm

DCB wrote:...
Presidential campaigns don't create movements. Movements create constituencies that Presidential campaigns can build on. "Anti-war" candidates don't win elections because the anti-war movement is very weak and does not have a large constituency. That is a sad state of affairs, indeed. But your once-every-four-year vote is not going to change that.


I have to disagree. A strong candidate brings people out of the woodwork for whichever movement they represent. A weak candidate requires a strong movement, but a strong candidate can pick from a variety of ideals and still win regardless of the trend. Whereas I think a solely anti-war candidate requires a strong movement like what occurred during Vietnam. But since the press doesn't cover war with the same detail they did during the Vietnam War, there isn't the same kind of public pressure or support for anti-war candidates. It's a different world when those with vested interests in profiting from war control the media.

gozer
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Re: They admit Russia meddled

Postby gozer » Sat Dec 22, 2018 2:37 pm

nonyuppie wrote:
I object to the practice in general of accusing people of working for the Russian government because they don't go along with the currently fashionable Russophobia promoted by the Democratic Party. It's really common anywhere you go, online and off. I don't see how Facebook would be any different. I see nothing irrational about it. It usually occurs when somebody is losing an argument.

I'm hardly the only person to notice this.


it seems to be a combination of cold war nostalgia amongst people as diverse as politicians in the pocket of munitions makers and other parts of the postmodern techno-industrial megastate, regular citizens worried about another round of base closures appearing again on the horizon, to bedrock straight up slavophobes and a smattering of wilsonian racists, and people wanting to nail trump for the one good thing he has done so far for whichever reasons . . .

Bwis53
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Re: They admit Russia meddled

Postby Bwis53 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:28 am

Report: FBI investigated whether Trump secretly worked for Russia
https://madison.com/news/nation/governm ... the-latest
WASHINGTON — Law enforcement officials became so concerned by President Donald Trump's behavior in the days after he fired FBI Director James Comey that they began investigating whether he had been working for Russia against U.S. interests, The New York Times reported.
I hope the FBI, Mueller and Rosenstein are comparing notes.

This is the week the game changed in the Russia investigation
https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/10/politics ... index.html

I've always wondered if Trump was always a pathological liar...

DCB
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Re: They admit Russia meddled

Postby DCB » Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:56 pm

No collusion! You can't prove collusion, because there is no evidence. Trump makes sure of that
President Trump has gone to extraordinary lengths to conceal details of his conversations with Russian President Vladi­mir Putin, including on at least one occasion taking possession of the notes of his own interpreter and instructing the linguist not to discuss what had transpired with other administration officials, current and former U.S. officials said.
...
As a result, U.S. officials said there is no detailed record, even in classified files, of Trump’s face-to-face interactions with the Russian leader at five locations over the past two years.

Bwis53
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Re: They admit Russia meddled

Postby Bwis53 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:12 pm

FBI investigated how Trump's actions seemed to benefit Russia
https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/11/politics ... index.html
They discussed a range of options, including Rosenstein wearing a wire while speaking with Trump, which Rosenstein later denied. Ultimately, then-acting FBI Director McCabe took the extraordinary step of opening an obstruction of justice investigation even before Mueller was appointed, sources told CNN.

Under Counterintelligence Rules, FBI Could Tap Trump's Phones, Bug The Oval Office...
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/1 ... =emaildksc
We are not out of danger yet. Trump will stop at NOTHING to get out of this, including torturing government worker hostages to demonstrate how cold and ruthless he can be. The Democratic plan to hold off on impeachment hearings are going to have to be flexible enough to understand the real danger a psychopath in the oval office presents to us all. And consider this, some Republicans are calling for giving emergency powers, which approach authoritarian in nature, to someone the FBI has and may still be investigating to see if he’s a GD RUSSIAN AGENT!!

I guess they're waiting til he "shoots someone, in the middle of Fifth Ave., in public"...

DCB
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Re: They admit Russia meddled

Postby DCB » Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:58 pm

What collusion? Only 101 contacts between Trump campaign and Russian. Totally normal.
The Trump campaign issued at least 15 blanket denials of contacts with Russia, all of which have been proven false.

Bwis53
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Re: They admit Russia meddled

Postby Bwis53 » Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:09 pm

Bernstein: Trump helped Putin destabilize US

Its always interesting to listen to his perspective.

DCB
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Re: They admit Russia meddled

Postby DCB » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:01 am

I confess that I'm shocked at the accusation that Trump is a Russian asset. Why didn't somebody, for example a former Sec. State, warn us about this before the election?

penquin
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Re: might as well not even vote?

Postby penquin » Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:57 am

(off-topic subject moved to its own thread)
Last edited by penquin on Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

Polka_Tulk
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Re: They admit Russia meddled

Postby Polka_Tulk » Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:38 pm

DCB wrote:I confess that I'm shocked at the accusation that Trump is a Russian asset. Why didn't somebody, for example a former Sec. State, warn us about this before the election?


Trump is being handled by the same folks who used to handle Rodham....just another bloviating whore to mammon.

Trump says US will withdraw from nuclear arms treaty with Russia - Guardian, Oct 21, 2018
Trump Agrees to Boost Pentagon's Budget to $750 Bln in 2019 - Reports - Sputnik, Oct 12 2018
Trump hints at punitive action against India for buying S-400 from Russia - India Today, Oct 11 2018
US Sanctions Chinese Entity Over Purchase of Russian Fighters, S-400s – Treasury - Sputnik, Sep 20 2018
Space Force Is Trump’s Answer to New Russian and Chinese Weapons - FP, Aug 10, 2018
Trump administration to hit Russia with new sanctions for Skripal poisoning - NBC News Aug, 8 2018
U.S. to sanction Turkey for receiving S-400 missiles - Ahval, Jul 27, 2018
Trump says U.S. ties to NATO ‘very strong’ - Politico, Jul 12, 2018
Trump to NATO allies: Raise military spending to 4 percent of GDP - AlJazeerah, Jul 12 2018
Russia ‘deeply disappointed’ at Trump’s withdrawal from Iran deal - Times of Israel, May 9 2018
Aluminum Stocks Jump As Trump Sanctions Target Putin Pal - Investors, Apr 9 2018
Trump orders missile strike on Syria military targets - CBSNews, Apr 9 2018
Trump just hit Russian oligarchs with the most aggressive sanctions yet - Vice, Apr 6, 2018
Trump opposes Nord Stream II, questions Germany - AA, Apr 4, 2018
Trump vows periodical dispatch of US troops to Baltic states, step up air defense - Lithuania Tribune, Apr 3 2018
Trump orders expulsion of 60 Russian diplomats, closure of Seattle consulate - CBS, Mar 26 2018
American General In Syria Confirms US Forces Killed Hundreds Of Russians In Massive Battle - The Drive, Mar 16 2018
Trump looks to deter Russia, China with $686B ask for Pentagon - The Hill, Feb 12 2018
Trump's 'energy dominance' strategy is undercutting Russia's influence and business in Europe - Reuters, Feb 9 2018
Trump says Russia is helping North Korea avoid sanctions - CBSNews, Jan 17 2018
Trump gives green light to selling lethal arms to Ukraine - The Hill, Dec 20 2017
Trump signs bill approving new sanctions against Russia - CNN, Aug 3, 2017
Trump Urges East Europe to Loosen Russia's Grip With U.S. Gas - Bloomberg, Jul 6 2017
Trump to promote U.S. natgas exports in Russia's backyard - Reuters, Jul 3 2017
Trump launches attack on Syria with 59 Tomahawk missiles - CNBC, April 6 2017

If Putin were to set off a few barrels of aluminum flash powder at the RU to EU pipeline, just think of what the infrared flare could trigger!
For all you neolibracons here that would love to see some action, obviously the Pentagon will need more money. Think of it as a buying opportunity!
Last edited by Polka_Tulk on Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:31 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Bwis53
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Re: They admit Russia meddled

Postby Bwis53 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:50 pm

US STEEL COMPANY - OWNED BY RUSSIAN? No wonder NMPOTUS Brags "We'll Only Buy 'Amerikan'"!
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/3 ... y-Amerikan

gozer
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Re: They admit Russia meddled

Postby gozer » Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:53 am

megyn kelly, former black-face lover number one of the national broadcasting corporation (united states) and formerly of fox news channel, veers into malware analysis:


https://sputniknews.com/us/201810251069 ... blackface/

here we go again:


österreichische rundfunk reporter gets into it:



stand for national anthem:


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