There he (Pope Francis) goes again, acting too much like Jesus!

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jonnygothispen
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There he (Pope Francis) goes again, acting too much like Jesus!

Postby jonnygothispen » Sun Mar 27, 2016 9:35 pm

"Pope Francis Calls for Ending Tax-Exempt Status of Churches That Don’t Help the Needy"

http://usuncut.com/world/pope-francis-c ... the-needy/

In America, it is estimated that churches would generate $83.5 billion in annual tax revenue if the exemption was lifted on their $600 billion in untaxed properties.

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Re: There he (Pope Francis) goes again, acting too much like Jesus!

Postby Gentle Man » Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:10 pm

jonnygothispen wrote:"Pope Francis Calls for Ending Tax-Exempt Status of Churches That Don’t Help the Needy"

http://usuncut.com/world/pope-francis-c ... the-needy/

In America, it is estimated that churches would generate $83.5 billion in annual tax revenue if the exemption was lifted on their $600 billion in untaxed properties.


I'm not what you'd call a fan, much less a follower of Jesus. But I don't recall Jesus threatening some sort of punishment or bad consequences for not helping the needy. I think he preached that there's a reward for doing it. A slightly different approach. But hell, I think churches shouldn't have any tax exemption, whether they help the needy or not. They're a business and should be taxed in the same manner as any other business. Seems to me that their primary business is to perpetuate the church and any "help" provided to the needy is mostly incidental.

In truth, there was only one Christian and he died on the cross. --- F. Nietzsche

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Re: There he (Pope Francis) goes again, acting too much like Jesus!

Postby rabble » Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:19 pm

Well, there was that lashing of the moneylenders. And the "easier to pass through the eye of a needle" thing for a rich man to enter heaven which implies an eternity of punishment.

I don't think there are many rich men who actually believe that whole afterlife thing, though. For them it's just a persona, "the" thing to do, much like where to live, what car to drive, and which country club.

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Re: There he (Pope Francis) goes again, acting too much like Jesus!

Postby jman111 » Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:29 pm

Gentle Man wrote:But I don't recall Jesus threatening some sort of punishment or bad consequences for not helping the needy. I think he preached that there's a reward for doing it. A slightly different approach.

Or is it? The call is to end the tax-exempt status (the "reward") for those not helping the needy, which leaves the reward in place for those who do.

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Re: There he (Pope Francis) goes again, acting too much like Jesus!

Postby Gentle Man » Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:43 pm

jman111 wrote:
Gentle Man wrote:But I don't recall Jesus threatening some sort of punishment or bad consequences for not helping the needy. I think he preached that there's a reward for doing it. A slightly different approach.

Or is it? The call is to end the tax-exempt status (the "reward") for those not helping the needy, which leaves the reward in place for those who do.


My point was that Jesus tended to emphasize that there would be rewards for those who acted in the manner that he advocated more than that there would be punishment for those who don't.

I agree, one does need to subscribe to the "afterlife" theory, indeed the entire Christian metaphysics, to be persuaded by the promise of rewards or threats of punishment. I've always, well most of my life, been puzzled why anyone would ever find anything in that metaphysics to be even slightly plausible. It strikes me as little more than a fairly transparent con game.

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Re: There he (Pope Francis) goes again, acting too much like Jesus!

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Tue Mar 29, 2016 1:01 pm

Gentle Man wrote:I don't recall Jesus threatening some sort of punishment or bad consequences for not helping the needy.

Really? You've never heard of Hell? That place where you'll burn in damnation for all eternity if you don't do what Jesus says?

Anyway, pretty much nothing Jesus says about rich and poor makes any kind of sense and much of it is contradictory. He said that poor people automatically get into Heaven and rich people automatically go to Hell. So the only way a rich person could get into Heaven was by giving all their wealth to the poor. It doesn't take a genius to see how doing so would condemn the formerly poor to Hell themselves. Elsewhere, Jesus makes it clear that the socioeconomic class structure of his day was both good and (should be) immutable. Masters were masters and servants were servants and everyone should be content with their lot in life and act according to their class. He has no problem, for example, with masters beating their servants, as the bodies of servants were the property of their masters. The poor are not to be valued for themselves, they are merely objects of charity for the rich. Oh, and let's not forget, Jesus didn't give a fuck about anybody who wasn't Jewish. Not. One. Fuck.

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Re: There he (Pope Francis) goes again, acting too much like Jesus!

Postby Roy » Tue Mar 29, 2016 1:14 pm

Prof. Wagstaff wrote:Really? You've never heard of Hell? That place where you'll burn in damnation for all eternity if you don't do what Jesus says?

Anyway, pretty much nothing Jesus says about rich and poor makes any kind of sense and much of it is contradictory. He said that poor people automatically get into Heaven and rich people automatically go to Hell.

Not sure what bible you read, but please reference this (any part of it). Because you are totally wrong on all of it.

No one (NO ONE) gets into heaven automatically, or goes to Hell automatically.

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Re: There he (Pope Francis) goes again, acting too much like Jesus!

Postby jman111 » Tue Mar 29, 2016 1:21 pm

Roy wrote:...please reference this (any part of it). Because you are totally wrong on all of it.

Pure comedy gold.

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Re: There he (Pope Francis) goes again, acting too much like Jesus!

Postby Roy » Tue Mar 29, 2016 1:24 pm

jman111 wrote:
Roy wrote:...please reference this (any part of it). Because you are totally wrong on all of it.

Pure comedy gold.

Glad to made the day of another who is clueless.

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Re: There he (Pope Francis) goes again, acting too much like Jesus!

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Tue Mar 29, 2016 1:31 pm

Roy wrote:
Prof. Wagstaff wrote:Really? You've never heard of Hell? That place where you'll burn in damnation for all eternity if you don't do what Jesus says?

Anyway, pretty much nothing Jesus says about rich and poor makes any kind of sense and much of it is contradictory. He said that poor people automatically get into Heaven and rich people automatically go to Hell.

Not sure what bible you read, but please reference this (any part of it). Because you are totally wrong on all of it.

No one (NO ONE) gets into heaven automatically, or goes to Hell automatically.

Luke 16:19-31, The Rich Man and Lazarus

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Re: There he (Pope Francis) goes again, acting too much like Jesus!

Postby Roy » Tue Mar 29, 2016 3:46 pm


Nice one Prof, ever read what you post first. Or perhaps you read it, but have no understanding of what it means.

Anyway, thanks for making my point and proving yourself wrong. :)

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Re: There he (Pope Francis) goes again, acting too much like Jesus!

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Tue Mar 29, 2016 4:16 pm

In all seriousness, I'd very much like to hear your interpretation of that parable, Roy.

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Re: There he (Pope Francis) goes again, acting too much like Jesus!

Postby Roy » Tue Mar 29, 2016 5:35 pm

Prof. Wagstaff wrote:In all seriousness, I'd very much like to hear your interpretation of that parable, Roy.

First I would like you to show me where in your linked chapter/verse he said anything about poor people automatically getting into Heaven and rich people automatically going to Hell.

You won't, because he said no such thing. It is based entirely on both acceptance and faith.

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Re: There he (Pope Francis) goes again, acting too much like Jesus!

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Tue Mar 29, 2016 5:45 pm

Roy wrote:
Prof. Wagstaff wrote:In all seriousness, I'd very much like to hear your interpretation of that parable, Roy.

First I would like you to show me where in your linked chapter/verse he said anything about poor people automatically getting into Heaven and rich people automatically going to Hell.

I already linked to what I think says just that. You disagree, which is fine. Theologians with a far greater grasp of the material than you or I have been debating this stuff for centuries, after all. I am sincerely just interested in your interpretation of the parable out of curiosity since I know you are a believer, not because I'm looking for a fight. You can choose to believe that or not and if you'd rather not answer, than just don't. No reason to get angry.

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Re: There he (Pope Francis) goes again, acting too much like Jesus!

Postby HawkHead » Tue Mar 29, 2016 5:59 pm

I'd go with Luke 6:20 Prof.

20 And turning His gaze toward His disciples, He began to say, "Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God.


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