Floods

What are the things that puzzle, enrage, delight and tickle you as you go about your life in Madison?
nonyuppie
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Re: Floods

Postby nonyuppie » Sat Oct 06, 2018 2:54 pm

snoqueen wrote:A third place might be where Woodmans is now, given that they say they are considering a new east side store

It would be a real drag if Woodmans moved. Now it is an easy walk or bike ride for a lot of people through almost no traffic to get there. If it even moved just across Milwaukee street it would become a much more difficult trip. Almost enough of a hassle to make it worth while to go to Hy Vee, especially since Woodmans does pretty much nothing to accomodate pedestrian or bicycle traffic.

gozer
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Re: Floods

Postby gozer » Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:11 pm

gargantua wrote:I recall that the Scofield site must have been a dump covered by dirt. I remember finding a can of some sort of solvent and accidentally spraying myself in the eyes with it. Lucky for me my mom knew what to do.


was that area actually turned into a dump and buried? anything happen to the groundwater in the area because of it?

i wonder what fraction of the infilling since before 1890 or so was done for malaria prevention, given that benign tertian (plasmodium vivax) malaria was endemic to the area as late as 1938 . . . presumably the wetland filling taking place in the 1960s was for other reasons, of varying wisdom?

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Re: Floods

Postby gozer » Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:20 pm

i thought woodman's had a new east side store, such as it was, in the area betwixt sun prairie and the north-east side of madison right by exit 100 and kusek's pond and all that . . . i would think they would be wanting to fill in some gaps by maybe putting a new one in jefferson or verona or somewhere . . .
i know lots of folks from that neighbourhood and it would really suck if they moved the woodman's; it is within walking distance for quite a few folks and by the bus stop and all that . . .

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Re: Floods

Postby gargantua » Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:31 pm

gozer wrote:
gargantua wrote:I recall that the Scofield site must have been a dump covered by dirt. I remember finding a can of some sort of solvent and accidentally spraying myself in the eyes with it. Lucky for me my mom knew what to do.


was that area actually turned into a dump and buried? anything happen to the groundwater in the area because of it?

Yes it was. One of my brothers owns the house we lived in when I was a kid. Our grandfather built it in 1936. I haven't heard that we've had any issues with contaminated groundwater. I wasn't old enough to know the reason that they chose to fill it in. I think, back in 1960, they didn't know how vital and finite a resource those wetlands were. I'm pretty sure that the city's current leadership wouldn't do something like that. The state sure would though.

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Re: Floods

Postby snoqueen » Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:12 am

gozer wrote:i thought woodman's had a new east side store, such as it was, in the area betwixt sun prairie and the north-east side of madison right by exit 100 and kusek's pond and all that . . . i would think they would be wanting to fill in some gaps by maybe putting a new one in jefferson or verona or somewhere . . .
i know lots of folks from that neighbourhood and it would really suck if they moved the woodman's; it is within walking distance for quite a few folks and by the bus stop and all that . . .


I attended a meeting fairly recently where Woodmans was among the many topics discussed. The overall topic was the development of the Voit property and other land immediately to its east, along the north side of Milwaukee St.

At the meeting we were told Woodmans saw that its Milw St store was nearing the end of its useful life, and they were keeping their options wide open but considering moving across Milwaukee St but staying right in the immediate neighborhood.

Nothing was said about their other specific options. Obviously this is a good bargaining technique because if you say you're all in on a specific outcome, people can too easily take advantage.

Traffic patterns and multi modal accessibility to a new Woodmans and any other development on the mostly vacant land is a huge part of the city planning process. Right off the top, it's obvious bus access to Woodmans would improve if the new store were on the same side of Milwaukee St as East Transfer Point.

Where to run safe bike access to a whole new residential/commercial development on the property was part of the discussion though no conclusions were reached. The city considers bike access an integral part of planning and the activist bike community is well aware of the issues faced on the Voit property. Note that any development will not just be along Milwaukee St but will contain new interior streets and paths yet to be laid out. Those can include dedicated bike lanes and paths so riders could be completely off Milwaukee and Fair Oaks for a considerable distance before reaching their destination. Nobody really wants to ride on Milwaukee St except the very fit, experienced, and aggressive. That doesn't include the majority of riders, who include parents with kids in trailers, kids on bikes, older riders, and plenty of others.

If you want to attend upcoming planning meetings or subcommittees contact your alder to get on an email list.

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Re: Floods

Postby gozer » Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:43 pm

snoqueen wrote:
gozer wrote:i thought woodman's had a new east side store, such as it was, in the area betwixt sun prairie and the north-east side of madison right by exit 100 and kusek's pond and all that . . . i would think they would be wanting to fill in some gaps by maybe putting a new one in jefferson or verona or somewhere . . .
i know lots of folks from that neighbourhood and it would really suck if they moved the woodman's; it is within walking distance for quite a few folks and by the bus stop and all that . . .


I attended a meeting fairly recently where Woodmans was among the many topics discussed. The overall topic was the development of the Voit property and other land immediately to its east, along the north side of Milwaukee St.

At the meeting we were told Woodmans saw that its Milw St store was nearing the end of its useful life, and they were keeping their options wide open but considering moving across Milwaukee St but staying right in the immediate neighborhood.

Nothing was said about their other specific options. Obviously this is a good bargaining technique because if you say you're all in on a specific outcome, people can too easily take advantage.

Traffic patterns and multi modal accessibility to a new Woodmans and any other development on the mostly vacant land is a huge part of the city planning process. Right off the top, it's obvious bus access to Woodmans would improve if the new store were on the same side of Milwaukee St as East Transfer Point.

Where to run safe bike access to a whole new residential/commercial development on the property was part of the discussion though no conclusions were reached. The city considers bike access an integral part of planning and the activist bike community is well aware of the issues faced on the Voit property. Note that any development will not just be along Milwaukee St but will contain new interior streets and paths yet to be laid out. Those can include dedicated bike lanes and paths so riders could be completely off Milwaukee and Fair Oaks for a considerable distance before reaching their destination. Nobody really wants to ride on Milwaukee St except the very fit, experienced, and aggressive. That doesn't include the majority of riders, who include parents with kids in trailers, kids on bikes, older riders, and plenty of others.

If you want to attend upcoming planning meetings or subcommittees contact your alder to get on an email list.




there was an area north of milwaukee street, behind the post office, which was a combination of madison and blooming grove and at one time maybe even pieces of burke which was prairie or farm i i r c which is generally not now -- if they move the woodman's across the street, knocking down the old one and turning the clock back to 1885 making it a prairie and some ponds or whatever would help -- places like that cool and purify the air and help reduce the urban heat island effect . . . think of how different things were pre-1665 when most of manhattan was salt marshes &c . . .
so at one time the east woodman's had the largest frozen-foods section in north america . . . maybe they can expand upon/regain that with the new place, assuming that a costco some place has the title now . . .

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Re: Floods

Postby Cadfael » Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:05 am

They could do some fun stuff with paths to the market from the transfer point if the stores were on the same side as the transfer point. And if they turned the current store into more prairie they could do some interesting things with that little park and bike ramp behind it.

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Re: Floods

Postby Cadfael » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:21 pm

I can't remember when the traffic lights at the mouth of the Yahara at Monona got tilted like that. I kinda remember them both as being pretty straight. No perfect but not like they are now. Did that really happen in the last few weeks?

Madsci
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Re: Floods

Postby Madsci » Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:08 pm

I don't know about Madison but SW about 40 miles we have had 25 inches of rain the past 3 months. We still have water on our ridge top that will eventually flow down to Lafayette County and cause flooding there. Water can move (or carve) mountains - just look at the Grand Canyon.

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Re: Floods

Postby gozer » Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:09 pm

someone who lives near university avenue in the deming way and greenway area was telling me about coming back from holiday after three weeks which started right around 15. august
and having a recycling bin with the top blown open by the wind and half-filled with water . . .

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Re: Floods

Postby gargantua » Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:22 pm

Madsci wrote:I don't know about Madison but SW about 40 miles we have had 25 inches of rain the past 3 months. We still have water on our ridge top that will eventually flow down to Lafayette County and cause flooding there. Water can move (or carve) mountains - just look at the Grand Canyon.

It depends on where you live in Madison. My part of the near west side got 9.6 inches on August 20th alone, and with the rain we got since would put us around 25 inches as well.
I'm sure glad the east side didn't get that much. It may have been catastrophic if the Tenney Locks would have failed. People don't really seem to appreciate what a close call that was. Shift the storm track about 3 miles east....it would have been ugly.

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Re: Floods

Postby gozer » Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:41 am

is the prevailing theory for all this the surfeit of condensation nuclei, like smoke particles and indonesian volcanic ash falling from the stratosphere -- in addition to higher temperatures = higher water content?

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Re: Floods

Postby gargantua » Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:00 am

gozer wrote:is the prevailing theory for all this the surfeit of condensation nuclei, like smoke particles and indonesian volcanic ash falling from the stratosphere -- in addition to higher temperatures = higher water content?

I haven't seen a theory offered to explain what's going on this year. Just the generic "it's weather", and a warming climate makes this type of weather more likely to occur. This year, frontal boundaries have set up nearby, and just sat there. I've read about the possibility of a weakening jet stream causing this, but again, really nothing to explain why this year is so spectacularly bad.

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Re: Floods

Postby jman111 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:18 pm

Potter (professor emeritus of engineering) said two dominant factors are to blame for increasing lake levels: bigger rain events and urbanization.

Experts look at ways to improve lake levels after historic flooding

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Re: Floods

Postby snoqueen » Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:04 pm

Circling back to the Voit property plans:

Here's the city's draft plan for future use of the Milwaukee St properties were were discussing a few days ago --

http://www.cityofmadison.com/dpced/plan ... plan/2720/

You can see how crazy the city boundary is in that area, and what parts are still Town of Blooming Grove (somebody mentioned that earlier).

Nothing is included about moving Woodmans, another question that came up. It's not impossible, it's not already baked in. Buildings on the map are ones that already exist.

The most interesting part, to many, will be the network of new, smaller streets off Milwaukee St that will likely be suitable for bikes. If you think these are inadequate now will be the time to speak up.

I don't personally have a lot of comments yet, but I'm very pleased at the amount of green space -- some of which, I hope, will be useful for stormwater management.

I just got this map link yesterday. The formal review process commences October 16. Note that Town of Blooming Grove has to approve the plan, not just City of Madison.

At the link you will find ways to get more information.


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