How Good is the Goodman Foundation for Madison?

What are the things that puzzle, enrage, delight and tickle you as you go about your life in Madison?
Igor
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Re: How Good is the Goodman Foundation for Madison?

Postby Igor » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:44 pm

Truthseeker wrote: I probably pay twice the taxes you do to be able to just that.


At last we are getting down to the real issues.

Beard
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Re: How Good is the Goodman Foundation for Madison?

Postby Beard » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:48 pm

Truthseeker wrote:Beard....THe difference is ....you chose to live next to a stadium...I did not! And the lies surrounding the "need" for this stadium are numerous. I am elderly and I relish my time to read, reflect and relax. I probably pay twice the taxes you do to be able to just that. Why should I be forced to give up my lifestyle? For what?? A beautiful athletic field currently exists on the Edgewood property. Edgewood does not need a stadium. This proposed stadium is being funded by the Goodman Foundation. Where is the Goodman Foundation website that addresses the criteria for how projects are funded? Where is the transparency? Would Irwin and Robert Goodman want to be the cause of this lack of civility and divisiveness? The Goodman Foundation should withdraw its support of the EHS stadium!


You chose to live in a desirable area adjacent to a campus that includes a high school and a college. Your expectations that nothing would change over time (ie. development) are unreasonable.

I probably pay twice the taxes you do to be able to just that. Why should I be forced to give up my lifestyle?
And there it is. It's exactly this sense of entitlement that makes it hard for people to take the neighborhood's arguments against the proposal seriously.

Edgewood's agreement to play their "home" games at Madison Memorial is no longer an option due to scheduling problems. They need somewhere to play. As you say, they already have a "beautiful athletic field" on their campus. All that they want to do is make improvements so that it is suitable to host, again, a small number of events on their own turf. Edgewood's proposal seems like a sensible solution to this problem yet the "No New Stadium" crowd would have you believe that they are proposing to blast searchlights and air horns directly into people's living rooms 24/7.

snoqueen
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Re: How Good is the Goodman Foundation for Madison?

Postby snoqueen » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:36 pm

Beard wrote:
Truthseeker wrote:I am elderly and I relish my time to read, reflect and relax. I probably pay twice the taxes you do to be able to just that. Why should I be forced to give up my lifestyle? For what?? A beautiful athletic field currently exists on the Edgewood property....


I probably pay twice the taxes you do to be able to just that. Why should I be forced to give up my lifestyle?

And there it is. It's exactly this sense of entitlement that has people irritated with all the complaining from the Monroe St. neighborhood.


Yep. Do people realize what this sounds like? You don't persuade by referring to your wealth and delicate sensitivities.

I appreciate the wish to protect a quiet and pretty neighborhood, but this is not helping.

As you say, they already have a "beautiful athletic field" on their campus. All that they want to do is make improvements so that it is suitable to host, again, a small number of events on their own turf. Edgewood's proposal seems like a sensible solution to this problem yet the "No New Stadium" crowd would have you believe that they are proposing to blast searchlights and air horns directly into people's living rooms 24/7.


We already discussed how the small number of events mushroomed from five to forty. That was not helpful. And trying to describe a new permanent stadium facility as minor improvements to an athletic field didn't help either. Edgewood lost credibility somewhere in here.

We have a wealthy private high school acting disingenuous and entitled and some well to do neighbors acting rigid and entitled. I can see the validity of a few arguments on both sides, but it's impossible to empathize with either party to any meaningful extent. The person I most empathize with is the alder, who was trying to be reasonable and split the differences. Apparently that didn't fly. We already noted how money prevails in this town, so I'll leave these two parties, both with more money than common sense, to fight it out. They could find a compromise, but if it's more satisfying to go full Trump-Wall, have at it.

gargantua
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Re: How Good is the Goodman Foundation for Madison?

Postby gargantua » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:51 pm

snoqueen wrote:
Beard wrote:
Truthseeker wrote:I am elderly and I relish my time to read, reflect and relax. I probably pay twice the taxes you do to be able to just that. Why should I be forced to give up my lifestyle? For what?? A beautiful athletic field currently exists on the Edgewood property....


I probably pay twice the taxes you do to be able to just that. Why should I be forced to give up my lifestyle?

And there it is. It's exactly this sense of entitlement that has people irritated with all the complaining from the Monroe St. neighborhood.


Yep. Do people realize what this sounds like? You don't persuade by referring to your wealth and delicate sensitivities.

I appreciate the wish to protect a quiet and pretty neighborhood, but this is not helping.

As you say, they already have a "beautiful athletic field" on their campus. All that they want to do is make improvements so that it is suitable to host, again, a small number of events on their own turf. Edgewood's proposal seems like a sensible solution to this problem yet the "No New Stadium" crowd would have you believe that they are proposing to blast searchlights and air horns directly into people's living rooms 24/7.


We already discussed how the small number of events mushroomed from five to forty. That was not helpful. And trying to describe a new permanent stadium facility as minor improvements to an athletic field didn't help either. Edgewood lost credibility somewhere in here.

Sno, you don't seem to be accurately describing what the numbers mean. The five refers to regular season football games. That number could occasionally go as high as eight if the team makes the playoffs (an exceedingly rare occurrence of late) and keeps winning. The 40 is for all events, like soccer and track, that can be played in daylight and don't involve anything like the sound and lighting of the football games. I don't think that's been hidden. And I don't recall anyone concealing the fact that this will be a stadium. It is a modification. There is already a football field, track, and stands there. But everything I've read from Edgewood calls it a stadium project.

Beard
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Re: How Good is the Goodman Foundation for Madison?

Postby Beard » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:54 pm

The 40 events number is misleading. From this article,

But the number of night games will likely be much less than the proposed maximum of 40, he said. That number of games would only be played if every Edgewood team was ranked first in the state and played all state playoff games at home. Looking at how teams have fared in the last few years, a more realistic number is between 23 and 25 night games, he said, and not all would use lights, depending on the season.

Many of these events are for smaller sports that don't draw much of a crowd (ie. noise). Have you been to a high school soccer, lacrosse, track, etc. event lately?

The article states that soccer and lacrosse games would be finished prior to 8:30pm.

I just don't see this project being the community destroying disruption that the Monroe St. neighborhood is making it out to be.
Last edited by Beard on Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:23 pm, edited 5 times in total.

Truthseeker
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Re: How Good is the Goodman Foundation for Madison?

Postby Truthseeker » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:59 pm

Folks...let me be clear....the issue is the Stadium. It is an issue of FAIRNESS AND BEING TOLD THE TRUTH. I apologize for bringing up taxes. I don't mind paying my taxes. I get value for my taxes! I love Madison and the schools. I even love Edgewood! I do not consider the noise, traffic and lights of the Edgewood High School stadium to be of value. Entitlement?? Well, if working and paying taxes for 60 years is entitlement, brand me as "entitled".

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Re: How Good is the Goodman Foundation for Madison?

Postby jman111 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:07 pm

Truthseeker wrote:Entitlement?? Well, if working and paying taxes for 60 years is entitlement, brand me as "entitled".

I don't think either working or taxpaying is it, but questions or statements like these seem to point to the problem:
Why should I be forced to give up my lifestyle?

I do not consider the noise, traffic and lights of the Edgewood High School stadium to be of value.

Igor
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Re: How Good is the Goodman Foundation for Madison?

Postby Igor » Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:19 pm

Truthseeker wrote:Folks...let me be clear....the issue is the Stadium. It is an issue of FAIRNESS AND BEING TOLD THE TRUTH. I apologize for bringing up taxes. I don't mind paying my taxes. I get value for my taxes! I love Madison and the schools. I even love Edgewood! I do not consider the noise, traffic and lights of the Edgewood High School stadium to be of value. Entitlement?? Well, if working and paying taxes for 60 years is entitlement, brand me as "entitled".


I have an assisted living house next to mine. When we bought it, it was a regular residence. The looks of the place have gone downhill. Buses and taxis routinely block our driveway. Other homes on our block are in far worse shape, with decks that are falling down and whatnot. Blocks away, friends own houses next to apartments or duplexes that have turned into higher crime areas. If I could clear up those issues and have an athletic field dropped in across the street - sign me up.

I don't begrudge you in trying to control what your neighbors do. Your neighborhood has the financial and political power to make these things happen. However, most people don't have similar power to control their neighbors' property. You may well win, but you also should probably not expect a great deal of sympathy, or a groundswell of support for your cause.

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Re: How Good is the Goodman Foundation for Madison?

Postby Beard » Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:22 pm

jman111 wrote:
Truthseeker wrote:Entitlement?? Well, if working and paying taxes for 60 years is entitlement, brand me as "entitled".

I don't think either working or taxpaying is it, but questions or statements like these seem to point to the problem:
Why should I be forced to give up my lifestyle?

I do not consider the noise, traffic and lights of the Edgewood High School stadium to be of value.

It was that Truthseeker specifically said "I probably pay twice the taxes you do" that reeked of entitlement to me. Following that up with a bunch of "I" statements didn't help.

Truthseeker
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Re: How Good is the Goodman Foundation for Madison?

Postby Truthseeker » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:06 pm

Igor, Beard, Jman..Got it! Life today, is much different than it was 60 years ago. I get it! Thank you for your advice and good comments. Please know that I am not trying to control Edgewood's property, just the air and light surrounding it...the God-given, natural elements that enable us to appreciate life and each other! Godspeed!

Cadfael
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Re: How Good is the Goodman Foundation for Madison?

Postby Cadfael » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:07 pm

Does anyone remember when somebody tried to build a bicycle cafe on the bike path?

gargantua
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Re: How Good is the Goodman Foundation for Madison?

Postby gargantua » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:13 pm

Cadfael wrote:Does anyone remember when somebody tried to build a bicycle cafe on the bike path?

A bit, yes. Somewhere near the Glenway golf course as I recall. That's just about all I recall however.

Igor
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Re: How Good is the Goodman Foundation for Madison?

Postby Igor » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:24 pm

Cadfael wrote:Does anyone remember when somebody tried to build a bicycle cafe on the bike path?


As well as this. Won't someone please think of the owls. https://isthmus.com/news/news/controversy-over-lighting-the-southwest-commuter-bike-path-is-coming-to-a-head/:

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Re: How Good is the Goodman Foundation for Madison?

Postby snoqueen » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:42 pm

It is an issue of FAIRNESS AND BEING TOLD THE TRUTH.


Ok, if the info in the news, when examined carefully, doesn't point to bait-and-switch after all, then what untruths are you complaining about? I'm trying to make sense of both sides here, and you have the opportunity to clarify for us.


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