Proposals for the Garver Feed Mill

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dogmeat
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Re: Proposals for the Garver Feed Mill

Postby dogmeat » Fri Apr 03, 2015 12:22 am

rabble wrote:Whether or not this survives the Walker cuts is anybody's guess since all four of them were counting on loans and subsidy.

This mentality illustrates why redevelopment of the property has languished for so long.

What becomes of the property and how it should be paid for is not a state issue. This is entirely in the hands of Madison. The city has had plenty of time to make something happen and state action has never been and still is not a limiting factor. The issue has been a lack of enough interest or support for the costlier options that preserve the building in some way. The city has been sitting on this property since 1997. The city acquired the property with no clear plan to reuse or maintain the property. That lack of planning resulted in serious deterioration. Each year the deterioration gets worse. Redevelopment bids that preserve the building in some form want subsidies because the cost of saving the building is so high. Those subsidies are basically payment from the city to have the building preserved. If the city (or another outside group) can't come up with the funds to cover that incentive, then the city should abandon the plan to preserve the building and accept the highest bid for the property. It will not get any cheaper to save the building and quite frankly there is nothing significant or particularly special about it.

Just because something is older doesn't mean it should be preserved.

rabble
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Re: Proposals for the Garver Feed Mill

Postby rabble » Fri Apr 03, 2015 3:38 pm

dogmeat wrote:Just because something is older doesn't mean it should be preserved.

Doesn't mean it should be paved over either.

I'm pretty sure one of the proposals actually used very little of the old feed mill. The event center, I think. It was pretty much a complete rebuild of the building and turn the rest of it into a parking lot.

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Re: Proposals for the Garver Feed Mill

Postby Stu Levitan » Mon Apr 13, 2015 12:58 am

Remember, dogmeat, there was an adopted, approved plan for the CommonWealth arts incubator that died in the Great Recession. So while the city certainly bears responsibility for Garver's physical condition, it is not entirely at fault for the time it has taken to develop the property. Also remember that the $1.85m the city is putting up now reflects the cost of demolition plus cost of building the new cold storage that will be part of the new development. The resolution accepting the Baum Co proposal is at Landmarks on 4/13 if you've got any other questions.

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Re: Proposals for the Garver Feed Mill

Postby snoqueen » Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:44 am

The city has had plenty of time to make something happen and state action has never been and still is not a limiting factor. The issue has been a lack of enough interest or support for the costlier options that preserve the building in some way. The city has been sitting on this property since 1997. The city acquired the property with no clear plan to reuse or maintain the property. That lack of planning resulted in serious deterioration.


Part of the problem is the building has no meaningful street access -- for practical purposes it's landlocked, with no car access from either Fair Oaks or Atwood. (There might be an around-the-barn access off Fair Oaks through the marsh to the back, but it's not helpful for the factory portion.) Properties like that are exceptionally hard to market for obvious reasons.

I'm not disagreeing the place has been allowed to disintegrate (and I'm in the tear it down school), but the lack of interest and support for costlier options is due in large part to its layout.

rabble
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Re: Proposals for the Garver Feed Mill

Postby rabble » Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:04 am

snoqueen wrote:Part of the problem is the building has no meaningful street access -- for practical purposes it's landlocked, with no car access from either Fair Oaks or Atwood. (There might be an around-the-barn access off Fair Oaks through the marsh to the back, but it's not helpful for the factory portion.) Properties like that are exceptionally hard to market for obvious reasons.

Kessenich's is only too happy to either sell or grant rights to a permanent entryway via their land on Fair Oaks. Just throw money.

Of course, as Marsha pointed out at the last meeting, if they kept the access via Olbrich to the mill, that could create a tempting shortcut around the Fair Oaks/Atwood traffic light.

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Re: Proposals for the Garver Feed Mill

Postby snoqueen » Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:17 am

All true, and the necessity of buying access is just one more reason developing this property is an expensive and complicated proposition.

Cadfael
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Re: Proposals for the Garver Feed Mill

Postby Cadfael » Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:49 pm

I keep forgetting to post this. It was posted to a neighborhood forum last week.
Kessenich's S. Fair Oaks near Kipp, bike path
City Plan Commission Upcoming Matters
Monday October 2
Tear down Kessenich's Restaurant Supplies, 131 S. Fair Oaks,
build 161 apartments, 11,000 sq.ft. commercial space
Developer: Michael Thorson, Inventure Capital LLC

If there's anything you've been meaning to purchase there, you should probably get it before spring.

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Re: Proposals for the Garver Feed Mill

Postby narcoleptish » Sat Sep 23, 2017 8:43 pm

Didn't the proposed project across from there get shut down because of the proximity to Kipp?

This is no different. Probably more downwind.

snoqueen
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Re: Proposals for the Garver Feed Mill

Postby snoqueen » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:49 pm

Yep, and yep.

Did Kipp make some improvements to the airborne pollution it was emitting two years ago when we last discussed this?

If they did, it might have changed the equation.

I still don't think I would want to live downwind of their plant.

I wonder if the developer at the upcoming meeting addresses Fair Oaks access to the ruined feed mill (or whatever you call it) in his proposal. Might be an interesting meeting -- there are lots of complications.

I'd love it if the outcome of this were to indirectly result in tearing down that old factory. I've looked at the thing long enough.

gargantua
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Re: Proposals for the Garver Feed Mill

Postby gargantua » Sat Sep 23, 2017 10:35 pm

Yeah, it's unfortunate that there are structures and ideas that our fair city hangs onto no matter what. The Garver Feed Mill idea is a prime example of it.

Kashka-Kat
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Re: Proposals for the Garver Feed Mill

Postby Kashka-Kat » Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:45 am

I still have not gotten a reasonable answer to how/if they will mitigate food odors from the reno'ed garver. Perhaps one has to live near industrial food production to know what a nuisance that can be. I want to smell roses in Olbrich gardens, not some funky garlic or something.

And dont get me started on the 50 campers who will entirely take over the portion that was supposed to remain public space Really not so inovative an idea, folks - theyve had tiny cabins at the jellystone parks for many decades.

I was one who was all for renovation..... but if the choice is (as it seems to be) between relinquishing public land to private interests vs.tearing it down & keeping the land natural and open to public, then I choose the latter. Actually the middle ground would have been ideal.... stabilizing and preserving it as a picturesque ruin within a parkland setting.... as other cities have done with their historic industrial ruins. it was talked about some but never really heard or taken seriously bythose with the power.

snoqueen
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Re: Proposals for the Garver Feed Mill

Postby snoqueen » Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:02 am

The urban ruin thing (which could be cool if done right) was discussed not only for Garver but earlier for St. Ray's after it burned.

Too advanced and forward-thinking for Madison. We are perpetually doomed to being several decades behind -- a very midwestern habit somewhere in between stubbornness and dislike of risk taking.

Ducatista
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Re: Proposals for the Garver Feed Mill

Postby Ducatista » Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:28 am

snoqueen wrote:Too advanced and forward-thinking for Madison. We are perpetually doomed to being several decades behind -- a very midwestern habit somewhere in between stubbornness and dislike of risk taking.

I've seen lots of ruin preservation in Europe... but who in the US is several decades ahead of us?

I love the concept, would like to see who's doing it well.

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Re: Proposals for the Garver Feed Mill

Postby jman111 » Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:50 am

A quick Google search reveals Nat'l Park Service efforts in the SW, some research on the subject from Rhode Island, and this thesis out of Pennsylvania.

Seems like there is at least some attention being paid to similar efforts. I didn't read the links for specifics, though.

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Re: Proposals for the Garver Feed Mill

Postby Ducatista » Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:53 pm

jman111 wrote:A quick Google search...

Did you just LMGTFY me? You think I'd ask without first doing my homework? I really am interested in the idea. I'm a Friend of the High Line, for crying out loud.

My searches were a little more targeted than yours, to filter out things like SW cave dwellings: "preserving urban ruins," then "preserving urban ruins" –Greyfriars –Blackfriars, then "urban ruins"+ preservation, then just "urban ruins."

I asked sno for help only after I came up short. Yeah, I could've searched more, but it seemed reasonable to hand it over at that point to someone who knows.

Why so snippy? I have no freaking idea. Monday, I guess. Or Tom Petty.


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