Sore losers

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gargantua
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Re: Sore losers

Postby gargantua » Sat Nov 24, 2018 9:41 pm

Cadfael wrote:You mean in either direction? From Democrats to Republicans? I suppose the GOP's kinda shot the next transition in the ass but in my memory the Democrats have never tried to sabotage the incoming administration.

I mean from Republicans to Democrats. They're changing the rules to make it impossible for Democrats to govern, even when they win.
That's not a recipe for peace.

Cadfael
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Re: Sore losers

Postby Cadfael » Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:29 pm

A call has gone out for the Wisconsin Dems to leave the state and deny a quorum like they did in 2011.

I can't remember how long they delayed the vote that time. Something like six weeks? I bet they could delay the vote till Evers takes office.

Hope there's enough backbone out there for them to do that.

gargantua
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Re: Sore losers

Postby gargantua » Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:36 am

If that would actually work, I'd be all for it. It's no more anti-democratic than what the Republicans are trying to do.

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Re: Sore losers

Postby DCB » Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:25 am

gargantua wrote:I wondered if there is some sort of ALEC-type playbook being used by Republicans across the country.
And I'm beginning to wonder if it's possible to have a peaceful transition of power in this country. It's beginning to look like it isn't any longer.

Everyone knows it is standard practice for a new administration to be bound to decisions made by the previous administration.

Unless its a railroad project that would create lots of jobs and improve our transportation infrastructure.

Cadfael
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Re: Sore losers

Postby Cadfael » Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:04 pm

gargantua wrote:If that would actually work, I'd be all for it. It's no more anti-democratic than what the Republicans are trying to do.

I find it to be much more democratic than adjusting the government one way to make it easier for your party and then adjusting it again to make it more difficult for the other one.

And I think it could work. I recall them threatening to send law enforcement agents to haul them back in chains last time, which indicates they don't have a lot of options.

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Re: Sore losers

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:29 pm

If the Dems go to another state, the extradition process could be very interesting. And lengthy. They could certainly hold out until Evers is inaugurated.

Donald
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Re: Sore losers

Postby Donald » Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:31 pm

Wisconsin needs the initiative and referendum. Nothing would stop these efforts like having them subject to a popular vote.

The Walker Recall would have been the Act 10 referendum, if we had had that option. It could have happened fairly quickly, as in Ohio. And, as happened in Ohio, the Governor would have to reassess his approach, and become more responsible. We would have maintained the unions, but they would have had to moderate their approach to health coverage and fringe benefits. Walker and the Republicans would have had to emerge from their 8-year ideological jihad and become responsible. I doubt much of Walker's so-called "reforms" would have passed in their present form. They would have passed, but they would have been modified and compromised.

The great thing about referenda is that you do it once or twice and it's like a 2x4 to a jackass's forehead. They won't be screwing around again.

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Re: Sore losers

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Dec 03, 2018 2:04 pm

Donald wrote:Wisconsin needs the initiative and referendum. Nothing would stop these efforts like having them subject to a popular vote.

Fighting Bob wanted those for Wisconsin, as well as the recall. We only got the latter.

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Re: Sore losers

Postby jonnygothispen » Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:57 pm

If you can't get to the Capitol to register opposition to the lame duck bills, you can do so by emailing JFC Co-chairs Sen. Alberta Darling and Rep. John Nygren.

Sen.Darling@legis.wisconsin.gov

Rep.Nygren@legis.wisconsin.gov

Donald
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Re: Sore losers

Postby Donald » Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:21 pm

I agree with keeping the presidential primaries separate from the non-partisan balloting. Progressive reforms instituted both the non-partisan local election process and the presidential primary as two separate reforms, and partisan elections should be separated from elections for non-partisan offices. But the date selected seems to be not well thought out.

I would think a date in early June would be better than sticking it in March.

Further, there is no reason to do this bill in the lame duck session, as this could be done in the regular session.

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Re: Sore losers

Postby gargantua » Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:13 pm

Donald wrote:I agree with keeping the presidential primaries separate from the non-partisan balloting. Progressive reforms instituted both the non-partisan local election process and the presidential primary as two separate reforms, and partisan elections should be separated from elections for non-partisan offices. But the date selected seems to be not well thought out.

I would think a date in early June would be better than sticking it in March.

Further, there is no reason to do this bill in the lame duck session, as this could be done in the regular session.

They're doing it now because they're afraid Governor Evers wouldn't sign it, and they know Walker will.

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Re: Sore losers

Postby Donald » Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:23 am

Is there a single subject requirement for bills in Wisconsin? Many states have either constitutional requirements or legislative rules requirements that any bill have only one subject.

I used to lobby in another state, and there was always an argument about whether some bills contained two subjects, and those bills were not properly constituted. The idea behind the single subject bill requirements is to not allow packing of bad or unpopular legislation into otherwise good or popular or must pass legislation, as often happens, for example, in Congress.

It just seems that a lot of what happens in Wisconsin is just piss poor or corrupt legislative practice.

Henry Vilas
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Re: Sore losers

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:39 am

This is all I could find.

No private or local bill which may be passed by the legislature shall embrace more than one subject, and that shall be expressed in the title.


I don't think what the GOP is proposing would be considered a private or local bill.

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Re: Sore losers

Postby Donald » Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:44 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:This is all I could find.

No private or local bill which may be passed by the legislature shall embrace more than one subject, and that shall be expressed in the title.


I don't think what the GOP is proposing would be considered a private or local bill.

So, Wisconsin has that single subject rule in the State Constitution, but it applies only to "private or local" bills. Strange, and something to consider for what should be a total reform of the Legislative Branch in upcoming years. Other states forbid private and local bills altogether. Bills have to be constructed to apply generally.

I moved to Wisconsin in 2001, just before the uproar started over the corruption in the Legislature was hitting the fan. I thought then that the Legislative Branch needed some modernization, but the arrogance with which the current crew of miscreants operates makes me think that abolishing the entire branch might be in order.

Well, that won't happen, but the system needs more than Democrats in charge. It needs a barbed wire enema, which will require more than an election or two to straighten things out.

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Re: Sore losers

Postby gozer » Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:17 pm

Cadfael wrote:
gargantua wrote:If that would actually work, I'd be all for it. It's no more anti-democratic than what the Republicans are trying to do.

I find it to be much more democratic than adjusting the government one way to make it easier for your party and then adjusting it again to make it more difficult for the other one.

And I think it could work. I recall them threatening to send law enforcement agents to haul them back in chains last time, which indicates they don't have a lot of options.


maybe pass the hat and have the democrats take an extended vacation in brazil or transdneistria, some place where the republicans couldn't even begin to try to haul them back in chains?


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