Civil War Monuments/Shots fired by elementary school

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Stu Levitan
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Re: Civil War Monuments/Shots fired by elementary school

Postby Stu Levitan » Fri Nov 02, 2018 2:27 pm

gozer wrote:
jonnygothispen wrote:
Stu Levitan wrote:
The cenotaph was not a reflection of the heritage of the South. It was paid for by United Daughters of Confederacy at the express request of Madison friends of Alice Whiting Watermen, men who had been Union generals,each of whom lost an arm in battle. Whatever else UDC was doing elsewhere to advance the "Lost Cause" myth, this wasn't part of it.


I think that it could fall under consensus of interpretation. As the meanings of words have changed depending on how they're used, so goes symbolism as well.
it may come down to the extent to which it is a memorial to the soldiers themselves . . . after all, just like any other war, powerful people sent others into battle to fight for one thing or another, not always in the best interest of every single person who bore arms in the conflict . . . there was conscription on both sides of this, right? it stands to reason that not all of the confederate states of america soldiers were slave owners who enthusiastically rushed on to the battlefield to defend the right of others to own other people, correct? i could be wrong, of course . . .


The decedent were assuredly not slave owners. They were young and poor, mainly Irish indentured servants, conscripted to fight just as the poor have always been.

jonnygothispen
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Re: Civil War Monuments/Shots fired by elementary school

Postby jonnygothispen » Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:45 pm

Stu Levitan wrote:
jonnygothispen wrote:It's my understanding that the individual grave markers were not removed, and that their names are on those also. Is that true? If so, then a collection of the names on one stone would tend to represent their collective cause.


The marble headstones are substantially degraded, with most names illegible.
Well, then I agree with you & Paleo and apologize for arguing.

The cenotaph is dedicated "In loving memory by United Daughters of Confederacy to Mrs. Alice Whiting Waterman and her 'boys.'" ...


The word "Confederacy" might be the only reason it's controversial.

gargantua
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Re: Civil War Monuments/Shots fired by elementary school

Postby gargantua » Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:20 pm

Stu Levitan wrote:
jonnygothispen wrote:It's my understanding that the individual grave markers were not removed, and that their names are on those also. Is that true? If so, then a collection of the names on one stone would tend to represent their collective cause.


The marble headstones are substantially degraded, with most names illegible.

The cenotaph is dedicated "In loving memory by United Daughters of Confederacy to Mrs. Alice Whiting Waterman and her 'boys.'" The decedent soldiers are listed by initial and name, with no reference to military service. The only indication the cenotaph is a confederate monument is the reference to UDC. And the only reason the UDC got involved is because two Madison friends of Waterman's, both Union officers who each lost a limb in battle, initiated the fundraising effort to install the monument. The cenotaph may well have a different meaning today after Charlottesville, but it was not a Lost Cause monument at the time of its installation.

I'm fine with leaving it there, but I wouldn't vote the mayor or my alder out over that issue and they know that most of their constituents won't. It's a damn shame.

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Re: Civil War Monuments/Shots fired by elementary school

Postby Paleo2 » Sat Nov 03, 2018 11:32 am

jonnygothispen wrote:
Stu Levitan wrote:
jonnygothispen wrote:It's my understanding that the individual grave markers were not removed, and that their names are on those also. Is that true? If so, then a collection of the names on one stone would tend to represent their collective cause.


The marble headstones are substantially degraded, with most names illegible.
Well, then I agree with you & Paleo and apologize for arguing.

The cenotaph is dedicated "In loving memory by United Daughters of Confederacy to Mrs. Alice Whiting Waterman and her 'boys.'" ...


The word "Confederacy" might be the only reason it's controversial.


Well, now. This says a lot about Johnny.

There are some who come to online forums to argue, or to troll. Others come for an intelligent discussion. It is clear Johnny is here for an intelligent discussion.

No need to apologize to me, Johnny. The fact that you are willing to listen to my feeble arguments and Stu’s knowledgeable arguments and re-evaluate your opinion makes an apology unnecessary in my opinion.

I don’t speak for Stu. His knowledge of history, especially Madison history, speaks for itself.

gozer
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Re: Civil War Monuments/Shots fired by elementary school

Postby gozer » Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:24 am

what about whistling "dixie" past the graveyard? whistling "zippity doo dah" out of their arseholes for two fucking two fucking weeks past thefucking graveyard, such that they will need fucking plastic surgery to remove the fucking smiles from their fucking faces?

Henry Vilas
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Re: Civil War Monuments/Shots fired by elementary school

Postby Henry Vilas » Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:11 am

Confederate monument removed from Forest Hill Cemetery, given to Veterans Museum

Good move. That's exactly what Germany did with Nazi monuments (those that weren't immediately destroyed after WWII ended).


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