Tony Evers for governor

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PaleoLiberal
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Re: Tony Evers for governor

Postby PaleoLiberal » Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:13 am

After the explanatory post, it makes SOME sense.

However, just about any state needs a very strong educational system for economic growth. The Republicans have been gutting our educational system from pre-K up to graduate level programs at the UW campuses. This is killing the goose laying the golden eggs.

In order to attract the jobs that require a good education, we need a world class educational system.

For one thing, many of the startup companies in Madison are run by UW professors or former UW students.
Investing in the UW system, for example, does several things:

1. It brings in a ton of grant money. This leads to jobs for researchers, including post-docs, graduate students, undergraduate researchers, and educated people from the community. Not to mention clerical and support staff, and the construction, retail, etc. jobs that we get from the money in the economy.

2. It attracts people who can start up small companies which require education. Explained above.

3. It gives UW students the education they need for these jobs.

Sure, it is rough when UW students go out of state for jobs, because there aren't enough jobs for them in Wisconsin. But Evers is correct. It starts with a strong educational system. Which the Republicans are gutting for tax cuts and short term budget tricks. The gutting of our educational system will hurt our economy for decades, but it looks nice in the annual budget.

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Re: Tony Evers for governor

Postby fflambeau » Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:02 pm

You're right but "preaching to the choir".

Evers needs to find more ways of appealing to other voters, in particular, he needs a much more progressive position on pocketbook items.

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Re: Tony Evers for governor

Postby Comrade » Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:25 pm

PaleoLiberal wrote:After the explanatory post, it makes SOME sense.

However, just about any state needs a very strong educational system for economic growth. The Republicans have been gutting our educational system from pre-K up to graduate level programs at the UW campuses. This is killing the goose laying the golden eggs.

In order to attract the jobs that require a good education, we need a world class educational system.

For one thing, many of the startup companies in Madison are run by UW professors or former UW students.
Investing in the UW system, for example, does several things:

1. It brings in a ton of grant money. This leads to jobs for researchers, including post-docs, graduate students, undergraduate researchers, and educated people from the community. Not to mention clerical and support staff, and the construction, retail, etc. jobs that we get from the money in the economy.

2. It attracts people who can start up small companies which require education. Explained above.

3. It gives UW students the education they need for these jobs.

Sure, it is rough when UW students go out of state for jobs, because there aren't enough jobs for them in Wisconsin. But Evers is correct. It starts with a strong educational system. Which the Republicans are gutting for tax cuts and short term budget tricks. The gutting of our educational system will hurt our economy for decades, but it looks nice in the annual budget.




I didn't (and don't) disagree with that at all. Of course we need good education, BUT it is only ONE variable in a much larger equation of what is needed to make things better.

My point was that in his video he didn't address anything else, and what he advocated is what we have been doing for decades. IF that's all he has to offer, than he isnt going anywhere as a candidate.

Seriously, that was my only point.

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Re: Tony Evers for governor

Postby fflambeau » Sat Sep 16, 2017 10:27 pm

I tend to agree with Comrade's point.

If all Evers talks about is education he's going to lose badly. Russ Feingold, who had much better name recognition than Evers and who had won real elections statewide, employed the same losing idea in his campaign against the very beatable Ron Johnson.

People want to hear about what the Democratic Party in Wisconsin (and its Gubernatorial candidate) are going to do to help them on pocketbook issues. They want to hear a candidate fight for a higher minimum wage (something Evers apparently is against); for INCREASES in social security benefits; for an expanded and better healthcare system.

He needs to study Bernie Sanders campaign. He doesn't seem to be much of a progressive.

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Re: Tony Evers for governor

Postby fflambeau » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:09 pm

Trump's hatefulness and divisiveness should be an issue and Evers should call him out (and link him to Walker).

Evers go to message should be that he will be unlike Trump and unlike Walker and will be a uniter, not a divider. The school issue alone isn't enough (and is preaching the choir).

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Re: Tony Evers for governor

Postby penquin » Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:32 am

fflambeau wrote:(and is preaching the choir).


You say that like it's a bad thing. Do you beleive telling people who agree with you on an issue the same thing over&over&over again isn't productive and may actually be harmful to the cause?

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Re: Tony Evers for governor

Postby fflambeau » Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:10 am

No. But I think he needs to go out beyond the "choir" and reach people on some issues that haven't been used so much before: potholes, roads, pocketbook issues etc. Issues that all people care about (let's face it, there are lots of people out there who could care less about schools and schooling. They might be single and older, or they just don't care and think education is no big deal.

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Re: Tony Evers for governor

Postby Paleo2 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:09 pm

Wrong Evers.

Baseball's Sad Lexicon
:These are the saddest of possible words:
"Tinker to Evers to Chance."
Trio of bear cubs, and fleeter than birds,
Tinker and Evers and Chance.
Ruthlessly pricking our gonfalon[a] bubble,
Making a Giant hit into a double[b] –
Words that are heavy with nothing but trouble:
"Tinker to Evers to Chance."

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Re: Tony Evers for governor

Postby Hondo » Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:26 pm

It's hard to see any candidate gaining more than 48% of the vote in a general election. Tony Evers et al will have a hard time bringing in new voters in a 'normal' election cycle... and now we have a new group of voters mobilized by Trump. As Vinehout acknowledged, young guys in scruffy beards and work boots showed up to vote. Trump offered them a cheap oppurtunity to feel like winners, and they aren't going to let go. Walker glommed onto this.

There is little sign that the state Dem party has adjusted, or even recognizes how it should.

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Re: Tony Evers for governor

Postby Comrade » Fri Nov 24, 2017 4:48 pm

Well, more than eight weeks later and still no answer from the left about how to grow an economy or even why it is important.

This candidate has no original ideas and is going nowhere.

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Re: Tony Evers for governor

Postby Paleo2 » Fri Nov 24, 2017 7:33 pm

At this point the Democratic Party seems to be relying on their candidate being Not Walker and Not Trump.

It might be enough to win,

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Re: Tony Evers for governor

Postby timby » Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:25 pm

Paleo2 wrote:At this point the Democratic Party seems to be relying on their candidate being Not Walker and Not Trump.

It might be enough to win,


They tried "Not Walker" in 2012 and 2014. It didn't work particularly well.

You'd think at some point DPW would realize that they have to campaign on more than just "Hey, see that guy? Fuck that guy"--heck, you'd think Democrats would have learned that from Kerry's failure in 2004--but never doubt their capacity to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

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Re: Tony Evers for governor

Postby DCB » Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:43 pm

Actually, I think "Fuck that guy!" would be a bigger vote getter than "we disagree on some issues".

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Re: Tony Evers for governor

Postby Paleo2 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:36 pm

timby wrote:
Paleo2 wrote:At this point the Democratic Party seems to be relying on their candidate being Not Walker and Not Trump.

It might be enough to win,


They tried "Not Walker" in 2012 and 2014. It didn't work particularly well.

You'd think at some point DPW would realize that they have to campaign on more than just "Hey, see that guy? Fuck that guy"--heck, you'd think Democrats would have learned that from Kerry's failure in 2004--but never doubt their capacity to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.


I have said many times in the past that "Not that guy" rarely wins.

There are exceptions.

2018 may be a year when the GOP is so unpopular that "Not a Republican" may be enough for a win. I hope so.

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Re: Tony Evers for governor

Postby timby » Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:51 pm

Paleo2 wrote:
timby wrote:
Paleo2 wrote:At this point the Democratic Party seems to be relying on their candidate being Not Walker and Not Trump.

It might be enough to win,


They tried "Not Walker" in 2012 and 2014. It didn't work particularly well.

You'd think at some point DPW would realize that they have to campaign on more than just "Hey, see that guy? Fuck that guy"--heck, you'd think Democrats would have learned that from Kerry's failure in 2004--but never doubt their capacity to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.


I have said many times in the past that "Not that guy" rarely wins.

There are exceptions.

2018 may be a year when the GOP is so unpopular that "Not a Republican" may be enough for a win. I hope so.


Trump's wildly unpopular among a certain percentage of the public, but his populist bullshit mobilized the fringes in ways that absolutely no one could have predicted (and we still don't have enough post-2016 data for a model; for every "Trump voter feels betrayed" story there are ten "THE REPUBLICANS ARE SAVING US FROM THE LIBERALS")--we're in post-Silver failure territory, here, and saying "not that guy" could succeed is basically rolling up a snowball, tossing it into the fires of Hell, and expecting it to last for fifteen minutes.

The successful Democratic gubernatorial candidate will:

1) Spell out exactly how corrupt Scott Walker's administration has been
2) Spell out exactly what's wrong with Wisconsin's economy and how it has been proven, yet again, that trickle-down doesn't fucking work
3) Spell out exactly what can be done to stop things like the brain drain and, in turn, get the state's economy jump-started

Which is to say, campaign on an actual platform. I mean, realistically speaking, Wisconsin is going to be in the shitter until the next redistricting, because currently the state is so gerrymandered for the Republicans that it would take an act of God to flip the Assembly, and so any governor who gets elected next year is going to have a ton of undeserved shit hung around his / her neck, and then face an uphill battle in 2022: And that's assuming the Supreme Court actually upholds the challenge to Wisconsin's districts, and that isn't at all guaranteed given Anthony Kennedy's predilection for wavering (he asked for a formula in the last redistricting case, the Wisconsin case was specifically structured to meet his requirements, but it wouldn't be the first time that he wanted to punt despite having the clear road opened for him).


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