JDS

Please limit discussion in this area to local and state politics.
fennel
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 5314
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:24 pm
Location: Inside the Green Zone, Madison

Re: JDS

Postby fennel » Sat Mar 12, 2016 5:30 pm

gargantua wrote:You're absolutely right about the tunnel. I wish that could be improved somehow.
Hmm, perhaps we could put it underground.

snoqueen
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 15306
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 10:42 pm

Re: JDS

Postby snoqueen » Sat Mar 12, 2016 6:39 pm

Nah, too wet.

I was thinking something more like nice curtains and some houseplants.

timby
Forum Addict
Posts: 171
Joined: Sat May 08, 2010 7:40 pm
Location: Eastmorland

Re: JDS

Postby timby » Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:02 pm

Hell, just install some lighting and have it be a community mural.

fennel
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 5314
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:24 pm
Location: Inside the Green Zone, Madison

Re: JDS

Postby fennel » Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:40 pm

snoqueen wrote:Nah, too wet.
Well, I was hoping we might get some engineers involved ... but I suppose they've all moved to Minnesota by now.

fennel
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 5314
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:24 pm
Location: Inside the Green Zone, Madison

Re: JDS

Postby fennel » Mon Mar 14, 2016 2:11 pm

snoqueen wrote:State Street Mall (what IS that, anyway?)..
Did you ever figure out what it is? The google is of no help to me. (Not the State Street Library mall, is it?)

snoqueen
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 15306
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 10:42 pm

Re: JDS

Postby snoqueen » Mon Mar 14, 2016 4:20 pm

Actually, State Street Mall was this urban renewal project from Soglin I. The idea was to get car traffic off State Street and turn it into a pedestrian mall. The State Historical Society online photo archive has pictures from when State had two way car traffic, if you want to see. It was a well known place to cruise in your cool 60s car, back and forth all night. Anyway, this was deemed degenerate and someone had the idea to make State into a mall.

Then someone else found out some federal funds for buses were dependent on keeping a bus running down State. So they compromised and made it a pedestrian and bus mall. Then the businesses along State needed delivery access for their suppliers (not everyone had access from the rear of their building) so they made it pedestrians, buses, and delivery vehicles at certain hours. And of course emergency vehicles and police care needed access so they added those.

And that's about what we have today. Is it a mall? What IS a mall, anyhow?

Hence my somewhat sarcastic question.

Basically, never mind. Just more ancient history.

fennel
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 5314
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:24 pm
Location: Inside the Green Zone, Madison

Re: JDS

Postby fennel » Mon Mar 14, 2016 5:38 pm

Ah, so that's why it's such a mess. This was all before my time.

How is it that businesses didn't have rear access? That's pretty typical for main drags in Midwestern towns. Was it some kind of odd lake effect? As it is now, I understand the traffic is supposed to be restricted to certain vehicles, but practically it seems anything goes. Having refuse pick-up on State street is like having demolition derbies on a weekly basis.

Anyway, I was recently back to Burlington, VT where they seem to have got it right. (I think that was pre-Bernie.)

snoqueen
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 15306
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 10:42 pm

Re: JDS

Postby snoqueen » Mon Mar 14, 2016 6:27 pm

If you look at Google maps or Google earth you can see how the odd-shaped blocks on this diagonal street result in a number of commercial lots with no or inadequate rear access.

Also, since this topic has come up, State Street in its pre-mall era extended right through to Park Street. Library Mall was another product of this era of mall-making. People cruising in their 60s cars on a summer night would loop around the Capitol at the east end of their circuit, go down State to Lake, make some right turns past the Union and up Lake (or some other variation to get turned around), and then go back up State again. Over and over and over. For hours.

Kids would come from rural towns well beyond the boundaries of Dane County to do this, or to watch. I know because I was one of them. It was pretty special in its own midcentury, midwestern way.

Henry Vilas
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 27952
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 8:57 pm
Location: Name sez it all
Contact:

Re: JDS

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Mar 14, 2016 6:38 pm

fennel wrote:Ah, so that's why it's such a mess. This was all before my time.

How is it that businesses didn't have rear access? That's pretty typical for main drags in Midwestern towns. Was it some kind of odd lake effect?

That, and James Doty who platted the isthmus.

Image

penquin
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 3067
Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:19 pm
Contact:

Re: JDS

Postby penquin » Mon Mar 14, 2016 11:50 pm

One more thing Sno, and then I'll hush up about the Terrace - if you haven't seen it yet, they installed a lil' display of FLW's original plans&notes, as well as a couple pieces of furniture he designed for other buildings. Not worth a special trip, but if you're in the area you might wanna bop in for a looksy.

And you should check out at least one of those speaking events...me-thinks you would find the Lecture Hall a lot more appealing than the box-like meeting rooms.

snoqueen
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 15306
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 10:42 pm

Re: JDS

Postby snoqueen » Tue Mar 15, 2016 10:48 am

I've seen the FLLW exhibit at the convention center and enjoyed it. Recommended side trip if you're downtown and like architectural history.

And I've attended conventions and speeches at the center including events in the lecture hall. (Nothing can be done about the meeting rooms. They're utilitarian, although I think the awful fluorescent lights could be fixed fairly cheaply.) The lecture hall was OK. I remember my main impression on one occasion was how good the air-handling system was, because so many such halls have stuffy air and noisy mechanicals. I guess that's a compliment.

On the whole, I think a convention center is a utilitarian type of structure. If somebody comes up with some brilliant variation, the world will find out soon enough. To me, it's like the cliche of putting lipstick on a pig. A pig is just fine and the lipstick doesn't do much to improve it.

willystresident
Forum Addict
Posts: 217
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:12 am

Re: JDS

Postby willystresident » Tue Apr 12, 2016 9:19 am

Well, it looks like JDS is finally getting underway, unless torpedoed by the Common Council. The BOE unanimously recommended negotiations with Bietler to develop JDS: http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/ ... b68a3.html

I have to say, I'd be fine with either the lower cost option with above ground parking or their proposal that adds below ground parking at a higher cost. The lower cost option is exciting because it should leave capacity in the TID for support of another project, and we all know there's those stupid surface lots behind the GEF''s downtown that should be sprouting buildings.

gargantua
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 11185
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2002 1:30 pm
Location: Madison

Re: JDS

Postby gargantua » Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:15 am

I think I agree with Verveer's take that the lower cost option provides the clearest path to having the project done in our lifetime. Given the design of the ramp, I don't really care how much of the parking is underground.

timby
Forum Addict
Posts: 171
Joined: Sat May 08, 2010 7:40 pm
Location: Eastmorland

Re: JDS

Postby timby » Wed Apr 13, 2016 8:37 pm

If the public financing is going towards the parking, instead of the actual hotel itself, then I don't have a huge issue, I guess. Probably the least-objectionable option, in any event.

snoqueen
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 15306
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 10:42 pm

Re: JDS

Postby snoqueen » Thu Apr 14, 2016 10:06 am

Same here -- lowest cost option.

I dislike the design, but we've moved on. I think it will not age well. We are in an era of disposable architecture and we construct buildings with a short timeline and little thought for adaptability.


Return to “Local Politics & Government”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests