JDS

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mancl
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JDS

Postby mancl » Wed Sep 23, 2015 9:17 pm

There are some smart people here so I hope someone can help me out.

The latest Bob Dunn proposal for Downtown includes a $12,000,000 payment from the taxpayers to Exact Sciences.

The public also pays 90% of the cost of the land for the development.

The public also pays for a new parking ramp which enables Exact Science employees to park at no cost. The developer can rent the remaining spaces which should generate them $1,000,000 a year.

To make all of this work City officials will have to ignore more than a dozen of its own funding requirements.

Given all of this my question is why is anyone taking this seriously?

narcoleptish
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Re: JDS

Postby narcoleptish » Thu Sep 24, 2015 5:43 pm

Soglin wants something to crown this segment of his mayoral career with.

Prominent Dems are in love with Kevin Conroy.

Decision makers are afraid of losing "the next Epic" even though ES probably isn't, and Madison didn't have a chance of keeping Epic anyway, unless of course they were going to use eminent domain to put together 800+ acres somewhere within the city limits.

Bob Dunn has some kinda magic fairy dust that makes people gullible unaware of how many liens have been filed against The Edgewater since it's construction.

Any or all of the above.

Both newspapers have endorsed it now. It's all very confusing to watch. They are on the verge of setting a precedent that says any rules the city sets on how development happens, are fucking meaningless.

snoqueen
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Re: JDS

Postby snoqueen » Thu Sep 24, 2015 7:00 pm

If the Edgewater cost Mayor Dave another term, one can only assume/hope JDS will do the same for Paul Soglin.

gargantua
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Re: JDS

Postby gargantua » Thu Sep 24, 2015 7:18 pm

snoqueen wrote:If the Edgewater cost Mayor Dave another term, one can only assume/hope JDS will do the same for Paul Soglin.

I can't imagine Soglin will run again anyway, which is why I think he sees it as some sort of legacy.
I think it is a poor decision. Madison is saying that it has no guidelines by going along with this. It's no different than taking a bad deal from a car salesman because he has other buyers and you have to decide right now! This timeline urgency is artificial. Go to Fitchburg! Most of the employees will live in and shop in Madison, just like all those Epic employees.

willystresident
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Re: JDS

Postby willystresident » Fri Sep 25, 2015 3:42 pm

gargantua wrote:
snoqueen wrote:If the Edgewater cost Mayor Dave another term, one can only assume/hope JDS will do the same for Paul Soglin.

I can't imagine Soglin will run again anyway, which is why I think he sees it as some sort of legacy.
I think it is a poor decision. Madison is saying that it has no guidelines by going along with this. It's no different than taking a bad deal from a car salesman because he has other buyers and you have to decide right now! This timeline urgency is artificial. Go to Fitchburg! Most of the employees will live in and shop in Madison, just like all those Epic employees.



They won't go to Fitchburg. They will stay in Madison at the UW's Research Park, where according to multiple sources they've just bought a building. These aren't new jobs to Madison, they're a shift of jobs from the westside downtown. All these jobs will be created no matter where they are located. The realistic alternative is they will expand at their current headquarters and densify the UW Research Park.

Its a taxpayer give-away to a wealthy developer and the wealthy execs of a biotech company.

narcoleptish
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Re: JDS

Postby narcoleptish » Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:00 am

This is the first time I've clicked on a Mitch Henck video. Or was it an SNL Drunk Uncle clip, I can't decide. While I'm against the project, it's not for the reasons he's talking about.

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/ ... a0995.html

Henck seems to think that State St. is the only active place downtown after dark. He refers to the rest of the square as "dead" at night. He also thinks it would be a good idea to build some apartments down there instead. ??

This is funny stuff.

snoqueen
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Re: JDS

Postby snoqueen » Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:12 am

Obviously he hasn't gone downtown in decades.

Regarding JDS, does anybody know the City Council breakdown as far as pro/con? From what I can tell that's our last chance to stop this disaster. The mayor is complaining about how the upcoming city budget is so tough, but if you took this one misguided, transgressive monstrosity out you'd solve the problem and keep our borrowing lower, which helps not only the present but future budgets.

Nobody can argue the downtown is decaying -- Mitch Henck just wants to think so. A realtor I talked with a couple weeks ago said there's a billion dollars going in to develop the E. Wash corridor, much of it private funds. The capitol square isn't withering -- it's benefiting. We aren't in a crisis at all, and this isn't Detroit or Janesville.

We should wait for a) a developer with a better record; b) a project where we aren't putting the whole burden of risk on one single company's success; c) a project in line with the city's best practices and established guidelines, which exist for a reason.

City Council, step up.

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Re: JDS

Postby green union terrace chair » Mon Sep 28, 2015 10:22 am

snoqueen wrote:Regarding JDS, does anybody know the City Council breakdown as far as pro/con? From what I can tell that's our last chance to stop this disaster.

It will be close and there are a couple alders who will be absent (effectively a "no" vote). It's not the last chance to stop it -- this is only the first agreement and they still have to put the whole thing through the planning process. But I guess you could say that if this passes, it will make the other steps easier.

snoqueen wrote:We should wait for a) a developer with a better record; b) a project where we aren't putting the whole burden of risk on one single company's success; c) a project in line with the city's best practices and established guidelines, which exist for a reason.

I agree. Do we want to see these blocks redeveloped and the parking structure rebuilt? Yes, absolutely. Is this project the last and best chance of doing it? Of course not. The most positive thing I could say is that it would have its ribbon-cutting ceremony before any other proposal, but I think that haste is unnecessary.

narcoleptish
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Re: JDS

Postby narcoleptish » Mon Sep 28, 2015 11:28 am

snoqueen wrote:We should wait for a) a developer with a better record; b) a project where we aren't putting the whole burden of risk on one single company's success; c) a project in line with the city's best practices and established guidelines, which exist for a reason.


Like the Beitler proposal from the original RFP. http://host.madison.com/news/local/govt ... z3ZaxY777W

Offering 2 hotels (wasn't lodging the main concern in the beginning?) city office space, parking, and no TIF request.

snoqueen wrote:Obviously he hasn't gone downtown in decades.


Yes, the Last Dangle Party was probably his last visit.

narcoleptish
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Re: JDS

Postby narcoleptish » Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:12 am

Council approved it.

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/ ... f6332.html

Apparently the Mayor sees the same dying downtown that Mitch Henck sees:

Mayor Paul Soglin, in a detailed, passionate appeal, called the project vital to "the future of the Downtown and the city" with a defeat "the greatest failure imaginable.


Hmm... I imagine 350K sq feet of desperately discounted office space theoretically hitting the downtown market at some point in the future, could possibly be a greater failure than simply going with a different developer who isn't betting the farm on one unprofitable company with one product.

narcoleptish
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Re: JDS

Postby narcoleptish » Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:21 am

In other news, Sept court filings against Edgewater are down to a single 35K lien from a local woodworking company. But hey, let's not let the livelihood of a simple commoner undermine our trust in the Hammes company when the future of the city is apparently at stake.

snoqueen
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Re: JDS

Postby snoqueen » Wed Sep 30, 2015 9:19 am

I suppose that's good news, but let nobody forget the settlement of the other outstanding debts is incomplete as far as we know. And that's a boatload of money. Having sat through much of the Edgewater discussions I do not have a high impression of Robert Dunn's word -- he'll say whatever it takes and clean up the mess later on. (He was highly deceptive about his discussions with DNR over his proposed pier, for example.)

I seriously think Soglin has lost perspective here, and that's putting it politely. What the hell is going on??

And I agree with Marsha that deciding things at 3:00 am does a disservice.

Oh well.

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Re: JDS

Postby Westsidegal » Wed Sep 30, 2015 9:31 am

Does anyone seriously question whether this would have passed if the CEO of Exact Sciences was not a Democrat big wheel?

I was told by someone who should know that for anyone on the council with higher political ambitions it was impossible that they would vote against.

The six no votes showed real political courage.

Westsidegal
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Re: JDS

Postby Westsidegal » Wed Sep 30, 2015 9:48 am

What if Exact Sciences turns out to be this decade's Sonic Foundry?

snoqueen
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Re: JDS

Postby snoqueen » Wed Sep 30, 2015 9:57 am

Given the percentage of tech/medical businesses that survive intact over the long haul, that's not at all unlikely.


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