A public market? Are you kidding me?!

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Lynn Olson
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A public market? Are you kidding me?!

Postby Lynn Olson » Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:15 pm

This insistence on a public market in Madison is one of the most racist, classist and infuriating ideas! We live in an area with multiple food deserts where folks are shopping at Walgreens and gas stations - Why wouldn't we put that money toward MANY smaller markets around town, as was suggested to Mayor Soglin in Philadelphia.
The idea that a Public Market could do anything more than serve as a tourist attraction and outlet for wealthy vendors is absurd. What we need is more access to healthy foods for EVERYONE in this city, not just the wealthy elite. Come on - let's get real about access to healthy food and not just writing one big check so that folks can feel like they did something meaningful! Why is the private sector left to serve these neighborhoods - what is the City actually doing to solve this crisis?

gargantua
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Re: A public market? Are you kidding me?!

Postby gargantua » Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:02 pm

Taking years to build a public market.

snoqueen
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Re: A public market? Are you kidding me?!

Postby snoqueen » Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:07 pm

Good luck. I've been saying for years around here a public market isn't a good idea, but nobody agrees. Where are the customers? Whose business loses customers to the new market? What unmet need does it fill? What unmet needs are staying unmet once it's built?

It's somebody's vanity project.

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Re: A public market? Are you kidding me?!

Postby Comrade » Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:14 pm

Isn't the Farmer's market in the square a "public market"?

Mad Howler
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Re: A public market? Are you kidding me?!

Postby Mad Howler » Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:53 pm

You're making too much sense.
I'm kind of suprised no one here has challenged you about your shade of pink or red.
--->
Lynn Olson wrote:This insistence on a public market in Madison is one of the most racist, classist and infuriating ideas! We live in an area with multiple food deserts where folks are shopping at Walgreens and gas stations - Why wouldn't we put that money toward MANY smaller markets around town, as was suggested to Mayor Soglin in Philadelphia.
The idea that a Public Market could do anything more than serve as a tourist attraction and outlet for wealthy vendors is absurd. What we need is more access to healthy foods for EVERYONE in this city, not just the wealthy elite. Come on - let's get real about access to healthy food and not just writing one big check so that folks can feel like they did something meaningful! Why is the private sector left to serve these neighborhoods - what is the City actually doing to solve this crisis?

PaleoLiberal
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Re: A public market? Are you kidding me?!

Postby PaleoLiberal » Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:48 am

I think a lot of it is some government officials visited the Milwaukee Public Market and thought: "Hey, I'd love one of these!" I've been to the Public Market in Milwaukee, and it's great.

That isn't always a bad way to do things. Ike saw the Autobahn in Germany, and decided he wanted one for the US, so we got the Interstate system.

The trick is, to make sure that what looks good in one city would be a workable idea in another city. Would this work in Madison? Would it be complementary to the Farmers' Market, or would it compete? After all, Madison has the greatest Farmers' Market around, but only open a few hours a week during certain times of year.

The problem with food deserts in certain neighborhoods seems to be a different issue. We could work on that problem AND have a Public Market, or one of the issues, or neither.

All I know is my family used to sometimes patronize the Cub Supermarket that used to be off of Verona Road near Allied Drive. It got to where it was too dangerous for my wife to shop there alone. Then the store closed down. Then they built three more grocery places within a mile of my home, and also opened places like Trader Joe's.

My guess of the reason why Cub's closed? Probably too much crime (shoplifting, plus whatever other crimes were committed in the store or in the parking lot) and not enough profits. People who had a choice stopped shopping there, and the shoplifters kept shoplifting. So that creates a food desert. Any solution to the food desert problem has to address the issues of getting people who have a choice to shop there, and preventing shoplifting and other crimes.

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Re: A public market? Are you kidding me?!

Postby david cohen » Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:09 pm

PaleoLiberal wrote:I think a lot of it is some government officials visited the Milwaukee Public Market and thought: "Hey, I'd love one of these!" I've been to the Public Market in Milwaukee, and it's great.

That isn't always a bad way to do things. Ike saw the Autobahn in Germany, and decided he wanted one for the US, so we got the Interstate system.

The trick is, to make sure that what looks good in one city would be a workable idea in another city. Would this work in Madison? Would it be complementary to the Farmers' Market, or would it compete? After all, Madison has the greatest Farmers' Market around, but only open a few hours a week during certain times of year.

The problem with food deserts in certain neighborhoods seems to be a different issue. We could work on that problem AND have a Public Market, or one of the issues, or neither.

All I know is my family used to sometimes patronize the Cub Supermarket that used to be off of Verona Road near Allied Drive. It got to where it was too dangerous for my wife to shop there alone. Then the store closed down. Then they built three more grocery places within a mile of my home, and also opened places like Trader Joe's.

My guess of the reason why Cub's closed? Probably too much crime (shoplifting, plus whatever other crimes were committed in the store or in the parking lot) and not enough profits. People who had a choice stopped shopping there, and the shoplifters kept shoplifting. So that creates a food desert. Any solution to the food desert problem has to address the issues of getting people who have a choice to shop there, and preventing shoplifting and other crimes.


Same thing happened on the north side. Kohls went through the same thing and split. Ditto with Pierce's. Now the Willy St Coop has a security guard because they were getting hammered by shoplifters. But it's safe to go to that shopping center these days. So we're no longer a food desert, but not because some parts of the community care...only because other parts of the community DO care. I'll go to the public market IF they have things I need/want. If not, then I won't...but at least it's on the bus line for those that NEED that.

frankiewhalen
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Re: A public market? Are you kidding me?!

Postby frankiewhalen » Sat Jul 29, 2017 6:38 pm

The Public Market is not intended to be a supermarket or grocery store. It is intended to be "a place with a mix of food retail, wholesaling, and processing, arts/craft vending, community uses, and events in a culturally diverse and dynamic public space" according to the mission statement.
On the Madison Economic Development website there is a copy of the market survey: http://www.cityofmadison.com/dpced/econ ... market/426

The Northside Planning Council is administering a training program for entrepreneurs that would like to be vendors at the Public Market. The focus is on people of color, displaced workers, women and veterans.
Information regarding the goals of the MarketReady program is on the Northside Planning Council website:
http://northsideplanningcouncil.org/new ... ic-market/

Side note: Kohls did not leave the north side because of crime; the store was closed because Roundy's purchased the Kohls grocery stores, and there was already a Roundy's store on the north side: Copps. Pierces also did not leave because of crime; they are just out of the grocery business. Festival Foods bought 2 Pierces stores, and Benders bought the other one.

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Re: A public market? Are you kidding me?!

Postby david cohen » Sun Jul 30, 2017 10:58 am

well the retail theft numbers for Pierces sure didn't help:(

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Re: A public market? Are you kidding me?!

Postby Igor » Sun Jul 30, 2017 11:22 am

frankiewhalen wrote:The Public Market is not intended to be a supermarket or grocery store. It is intended to be "a place with a mix of food retail, wholesaling, and processing, arts/craft vending, community uses, and events in a culturally diverse and dynamic public space" according to the mission statement.


Yessir - that is a mission statement alright. Says everything by saying nothing.

I like the "dynamic public space" part. As if you can *make* a place be dynamic.

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Re: A public market? Are you kidding me?!

Postby jonnygothispen » Sun Jul 30, 2017 3:11 pm

Willy Co-op North has a JBM patrol person on duty to discourage theft.

Chatting with one of the employees, it was interesting to learn that sales are fairly brisk. It even set a monthly sales record for the 3 Willys.
Last edited by jonnygothispen on Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.

gargantua
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Re: A public market? Are you kidding me?!

Postby gargantua » Sun Jul 30, 2017 3:12 pm

Not having to participate in mission statement exercises can be added to my list of things to be grateful for in retirement. Everybody hates it, so it's no wonder the finished product is usually pap.

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Re: A public market? Are you kidding me?!

Postby fennel » Sun Jul 30, 2017 4:13 pm

gargantua wrote:Not having to participate in mission statement exercises can be added to my list of things to be grateful for in retirement. Everybody hates it, so it's no wonder the finished product is usually pap.
Live like you mean it.

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Re: A public market? Are you kidding me?!

Postby ttt3 » Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:54 pm

PaleoLiberal wrote:My guess of the reason why Cub's closed?


I think a number of things... which equally apply to the East side store as well (maybe not #3 as much):
1) Cub's prices were significantly higher than Woodmans, which was just a short ride away (10 minutes max). Hard to compete with that (also see #3 below).
2) Cub's offered nothing special that I couldn't get at Woodman's, and even on Cub's best days, did not have a significantly better atmosphere (not that I care that much about atmosphere when I shop. Just want my damn groceries!)
3) I hear selling groceries is a tough business. Very low margins. Unless you're offering something special or an image of organic-ness (i.e. Whole Paycheck or Willy St Co-op) the majority of people will gravitate to the lowest price.
4) Neighborhood was not the greatest, and downright scary for some people after dark (looming overpass and bike path in the backdrop, Allied drive just behind it, etc).

I wonder why Woodman's West doesn't have/need a security guard? Pretty close to Elver park/etc so you'd think there would be more problems.

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Re: A public market? Are you kidding me?!

Postby gargantua » Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:20 pm

Woodmans beats everyone on price, usually by a significant amount. Where they suffer is the quality of perishables.
And, they have a rep of being very tough on shoplifters, so much so that MPD bitched about it ( remind me again why I pay taxes for the police). Anyway, that reputation may serve as a security guard. Shoplift somewhere that takes it less seriously.


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