"What happened" by Hillary

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DCB
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Re: "What happened" by Hillary

Postby DCB » Sun Sep 17, 2017 11:46 am

It certainly is true that the Clintons are 'toxic' and 'polarizing', etc. At one time I did think it made sense for the Dems to distance themselves from the Clintons because of that. I have changed my mind.

How did it come to be that these politicians became so despised by some ? It wasn't blowjobs. It was a decades-long campaign of propaganda and conspiracy theories. The campaign has been well-orchestrated and well-financed, and it continues to this day.

When HRC referred to the "vast right-wing conspiracy" I thought that she was being overly dramatic and defensive. I don't think that anymore.

Just look at how FOX pushed a bullshit story about the murder of Seth Rich.

Why? I can only conclude it is because the Clintons are really good politicians, and the most serious threat to the right-wing's grasp on power. Maybe the Dems should listen to what HRC has to say.

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Re: "What happened" by Hillary

Postby MPMay » Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:34 pm

I have not read Clinton's book.

I have not read most of the posts in this thread.

I supported Clinton for President for the simple reason that she was the most qualified candidate. I'm not a political scientist, but I believe she lost because she was a woman, because she was a Clinton, because she ran a shit campaign, and because her opponent caught lightning in a bottle with the outrage of the aging white male.

OK. That's over and we are now in the shit-show that is the new administration.

All that being said, I would prefer that Clinton slide quietly into the night. Nothing she says at this point will enhance the progressive agenda. It may be unfair, but she seems to me to be so toxic to so many people that her comments at this point do not help move liberal positions forward. Would you like some cheese with that whine, Clinton?

I get it that she needs to write a book to make some money. Fine. Now let the Dems move on.

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Re: "What happened" by Hillary

Postby Ducatista » Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:46 am

^^^ Nothing beats the shut-up-and-go-aways collectively going on and on and on and on (and on and on and on) about how they wish Hillary Clinton wouldn't go on and on.

As it happens, she's not talking to you. Also not listening to you. But, you know, do go on.

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Re: "What happened" by Hillary

Postby DCB » Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:47 am

MPMay wrote:Would you like some cheese with that whine, Clinton?

This is just a gratuitous insult. Maybe the views of the popular vote winner of a historic election amount to more than just "whining".

MPMay wrote: All that being said, I would prefer that Clinton slide quietly into the night. Nothing she says at this point will enhance the progressive agenda. It may be unfair, but she seems to me to be so toxic to so many people that her comments at this point do not help move liberal positions forward.

Again, I'd ask you to think a little bit about how Clinton came to be so 'toxic' before you throw her under the bus:

The Clinton rules are driven by reporters' and editors' desire to score the ultimate prize in contemporary journalism: the scoop that brings down Hillary Clinton and her family's political empire. At least in that way, Republicans and the media have a common interest.

https://www.vox.com/2015/7/6/8900143/hi ... ting-rules

I'd also ask how you think the progressive agenda is going to advance if you concede the rightwing's ability to smear any politician who is actually competent.

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Re: "What happened" by Hillary

Postby gargantua » Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:13 am

I remember the long campaign that made Hillary so toxic. It was already beginning during Bill's first presidential run. Think about what a quarter of a century of attacks and innuendo would do to anyone.
So, while I agree that we shouldn't accept the toxicity that resulted, it's still there. I don't think she should just go away, but how can we "not accept" these smear campaigns? They've been shown to work. I think they're a feature of our political life for the foreseeable future.

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Re: "What happened" by Hillary

Postby Ned Flounders » Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:22 pm

gargantua wrote:I remember the long campaign that made Hillary so toxic. It was already beginning during Bill's first presidential run. Think about what a quarter of a century of attacks and innuendo would do to anyone.

The funny thing is that conservatives have demonized Hillary since ca. 1991 ... except for one brief interval around the 2008 campaign, when suddenly a whole lot of people in Appalachia (and elsewhere) decided that Hillary was the real candidate of the "common people".

Remember Hillary the blue-collar "beer track" candidate in West Virginia running as an underdog against elitist "wine track" Obama? Suddenly for a period of a few months during the 2008 primary, populists loved her.

Articles like this one read like dispatches from an alternate universe:

Obamaworld versus Hillaryland
Mar 6th 2008

Obamaworld is a universe of liberal professionals and young people—plus blacks from all economic segments. Hillaryland, by contrast, is a place of working-class voters, particularly working-class women, and the old. These are people who occupy not just different economies but also different cultures. How many white Obama voters eat in Cracker Barrel or Bob Evans? And how many Clinton voters have a taste for sushi? [...]

Mrs Clinton's supporters, by contrast, are kitchen-table voters. They wear jackets emblazoned with the logos of their unions. They work with their hands or stand on their feet all day. They have seen their living standards stagnate for years, and they are worried about paying their bills rather than saving their political souls. [...etc etc etc]


The whole "Hate Hillary" (1992) ... "Love Hillary" (2008) ... "Hate Hillary" (2016) thing reminds one of the Eurasia/Eastasia thing from Orwell's 1984.

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Re: "What happened" by Hillary

Postby gargantua » Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:30 pm

^^^I do think a lot of that is really going on. Mad Howler used to speak of it a lot. Unless I didn't take his meaning, which is quite possible.

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Re: "What happened" by Hillary

Postby snoqueen » Tue Sep 19, 2017 7:11 pm

Hillary started pissing me off decades ago. First, I thought she was high handed and secretive in the planning process for the Clintons' first healthcare plan, during Bill's first term. I didn't question whether she was qualified to conduct the planning, but the fact she kept having all these closed meetings with insurance companies and, apparently, few others made me wonder.

Then, I thought she was high handed again during the stupid, endless Watergate investigations. I didn't blame her for being annoyed, but I do remember once she refused to hand over some file to the committee (file meant pile of papers back then) and suddenly one day it turned up just sitting on a piece of furniture in the White House. Or something. Like, she wouldn't hand it over personally, but she decided to just let them find it. Or something. Again, it made me wonder what kind of arrogant, tricky person she was.

The other time I remember getting really impatient with her was during the first primary campaign against Obama. The numbers were showing, over and over, that he was winning. The longer the campaign went on, the more it was costing, the more chances existed to depict either him or her or both of them unfavorably, and the longer the whole dead-end process was going to drag out. It's customary to concede at some point in a primary for the good of the party as a whole. And she wouldn't. She just kept campaigning long after it was an obvious dead end. And I thought, once more, what kind of stubborn, entitled person is this woman?

My opinion never recovered. I change my mind about people quite readily if they rectify their course, and I respect people who listen to good advice and adapt. I don't see intransigence as a virtue, in other words. Usually it's a quality I associate with right wing Republicans. But she had it and apparently she still has it.

I really, really hope she finds a way to use her personal connections and political skills for good in the years to come. It's not impossible. I'll change my opinion of her if I see this happening.

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Re: "What happened" by Hillary

Postby gargantua » Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:10 pm

Watergate investigations? Sno, I have to assume you're thinking of something else.
Travelgate maybe? You have completely lost me on this one.

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Re: "What happened" by Hillary

Postby snoqueen » Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:34 pm

gargantua wrote:Watergate investigations? Sno, I have to assume you're thinking of something else.
Travelgate maybe? You have completely lost me on this one.


Whitewater. Sorry. Wrong Water. That one was Nixon.

Look, the number of stupid, pointless Republican investigations of the Clintons would boggle anybody's mind.

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Re: "What happened" by Hillary

Postby jonnygothispen » Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:43 am


Donald
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Re: "What happened" by Hillary

Postby Donald » Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:21 am

If Hillary wants to squat and piss on some a-holes, I'll buy her a couple beers to make sure they get fully drenched. Nothing wrong with a little revenge golden shower. I suspect it won't change anything, but it sure does feel good.

I like the fact that she's questioning the legitimacy of Trump's so-called electoral college victory. As long as she's pissing on Trump, the Russian stooge and would-be dictator, I'm fine with it. Let her do to Trump what Trump did to Obama, except Clinton will have facts on her side, while Trump just had accusations.

She has some legitimate gripes with Bernie and his supporters, but that's punching down. Bernie lost, after all, and it wasn't because of insider Democratic Party corruption. He tended to do better in caucus states, not in states where more people actually voted. Spin put out by chemtrail believers and Russian bots can't change that fact.

But, yeah, after this round of piss on a-holes, maybe she should do some good work for the Clinton Foundation. She can still do a lot on important issues.

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Re: "What happened" by Hillary

Postby Roy » Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:31 am

Donald wrote:I like the fact that she's questioning the legitimacy of Trump's so-called electoral college victory.


Trump's electoral college win is as legitimate as it gets as well as Consitutional. WTF is wrong with you.

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Re: "What happened" by Hillary

Postby Donald » Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:39 am

Roy wrote:
Donald wrote:I like the fact that she's questioning the legitimacy of Trump's so-called electoral college victory.


Trump's electoral college win is as legitimate as it gets as well as Consitutional. WTF is wrong with you.

I think Mueller will have something to say about this. We could just wait on that....but, no, Trump wants a fast investigation, so let's do it really quick and dirty.

The evidence is already stacking up. All Hillary needs to say is, "I've got my many contacts investigating Trump in Russia, and , boy, you wouldn't believe what they are finding!!!"

I notice the Orange Man didn't call out Pooty-Poot in his UN rant. Why not? What does Pooty Poot have on Orange Man. Is it financial crookedness? Is it some underaged prostitute? Hillary's going to dig that out.

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Re: "What happened" by Hillary

Postby Roy » Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:10 pm

Donald wrote:
Roy wrote:
Donald wrote:I like the fact that she's questioning the legitimacy of Trump's so-called electoral college victory.


Trump's electoral college win is as legitimate as it gets as well as Consitutional. WTF is wrong with you.

I think Mueller will have something to say about this. We could just wait on that....but, no, Trump wants a fast investigation, so let's do it really quick and dirty.

Well, maybe Mueller will dig out the real Russian connections w/Hillary. Or the pay to play with the state dept. They don't come anymore crooked than Hillary.


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