Free speech heros

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DCB
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Free speech heros

Postby DCB » Sat Dec 21, 2013 6:29 pm

In addition to Martin Bashir, Alec Baldwin, and that Duck guy, we have:

Justine Sacco. Poor lady was fired before her plane landed. And all because of the evil Twitter, where she posted her racist joke.

She was a PR director for a media company. Wow.

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Re: Free speech heros

Postby Igor » Sun Dec 22, 2013 4:23 pm

The difference with all of these (throw in Mel Gibson for that matter) is that Alec Baldwin will be "rehabilitated" career-wise by the end of 2014, while the others' careers will not recover.

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Re: Free speech heros

Postby rabble » Sun Dec 22, 2013 7:44 pm

DCB wrote:In addition to Martin Bashir, Alec Baldwin, and that Duck guy, we have:

Justine Sacco. Poor lady was fired before her plane landed. And all because of the evil Twitter, where she posted her racist joke.

She was a PR director for a media company. Wow.

Wow, on so many levels. Throw out a tweet that insults an entire continent, then go there, on a 12 hour flight without an internet connection so when she arrives she has no idea that her post has gone viral and she's already lost her job. And she's still being whipped through the internet gauntlet to the point where one might wonder if she's being overly punished even for something as god-awful stupid as that.

I give this one five wows because of all those things but I don't see how this one enters the realm of "free speech." I don't find anyone making that defense for her, even on Fox. What am I missing?

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Re: Free speech heros

Postby Igor » Sun Dec 22, 2013 8:18 pm

rabble wrote:I give this one five wows because of all those things but I don't see how this one enters the realm of "free speech." I don't find anyone making that defense for her, even on Fox. What am I missing?


Guessing there was some sarcasm on the part of the OP.

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Re: Free speech heros

Postby DCB » Sun Dec 22, 2013 10:41 pm

Uh, yeah.

I mean, if you are looking for "free speech" role models who are willing to say something offensive regardless of the consequences, I guess you could call them heroes. I wouldn't.

You could also make the argument that you shouldn't be fired for making offensive statements outside of work (sorry, Bashir, that doesn't mean you). Can your boss fire you for something stupid on Facebook? What about something you said at a bar? I think that is an interesting moral argument. But I'm not making it.

And by free speech, I don't mean First Amendment rights, because none of these people were censored by the government.

One of the #hasjustinelandedyet tweets was something thing like

"I'm glad I live in America and can say anything I want. Just kidding! I'm black."

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Re: Free speech heros

Postby Igor » Sun Dec 22, 2013 11:46 pm

DCB wrote:Uh, yeah.

I mean, if you are looking for "free speech" role models who are willing to say something offensive regardless of the consequences, I guess you could call them heroes. I wouldn't.


I never have. It always bothered me that when some talent deficient artist comes out that "pushes boundaries" by being offensive, that their inevitable supporters never mention their suckiness. (I'm looking at you, 2 Live Crew) I get that people didn't want them censored, but just once I would like to hear someone say "We support the right of even crappy, misogynist acts to be heard. We also encourage people to avoid buying their CD".

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Re: Free speech heros

Postby pjbogart » Mon Dec 23, 2013 11:02 am

I liked "Going to America. I hope I don't get shot by George Zimmerman. Just kidding! I'm white."

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Re: Free speech heros

Postby smoothawley » Mon Dec 23, 2013 4:50 pm

Igor wrote:
DCB wrote:Uh, yeah.

I mean, if you are looking for "free speech" role models who are willing to say something offensive regardless of the consequences, I guess you could call them heroes. I wouldn't.


I never have. It always bothered me that when some talent deficient artist comes out that "pushes boundaries" by being offensive, that their inevitable supporters never mention their suckiness. (I'm looking at you, 2 Live Crew) I get that people didn't want them censored, but just once I would like to hear someone say "We support the right of even crappy, misogynist acts to be heard. We also encourage people to avoid buying their CD".


Here's an interview in which Tim Quirk of Too Much Joy talks about covering 2 Live Crew for 1st amendment reasons: http://www.avclub.com/article/too-much-joy-13644 From the interview: "I had to transcribe the 2 Live Crew songs, and I'm here to tell you, they are crap. They have almost no redeeming value. They're just bad. They're dumb, they're not intelligent. They don't shine a light on anything, really; it's just poorly done and poorly made. What offended me the most about it wasn't the curse words or the way they talked about women; it was just the lack of any gleam of intelligence in it. It was just, "Hello, we're stupid, and if you buy our music, you are stupid." But that doesn't mean it doesn't have the right to exist."

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Re: Free speech heros

Postby Igor » Mon Dec 23, 2013 8:20 pm

smoothawley wrote:Here's an interview in which Tim Quirk of Too Much Joy talks about covering 2 Live Crew for 1st amendment reasons: http://www.avclub.com/article/too-much-joy-13644 From the interview: "I had to transcribe the 2 Live Crew songs, and I'm here to tell you, they are crap. They have almost no redeeming value. They're just bad. They're dumb, they're not intelligent. They don't shine a light on anything, really; it's just poorly done and poorly made. What offended me the most about it wasn't the curse words or the way they talked about women; it was just the lack of any gleam of intelligence in it. It was just, "Hello, we're stupid, and if you buy our music, you are stupid." But that doesn't mean it doesn't have the right to exist."


Exactly...

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Re: Free speech heros

Postby Remember_Me » Mon Dec 23, 2013 10:26 pm

smoothawley wrote:
Igor wrote:
DCB wrote:Uh, yeah.

I mean, if you are looking for "free speech" role models who are willing to say something offensive regardless of the consequences, I guess you could call them heroes. I wouldn't.


I never have. It always bothered me that when some talent deficient artist comes out that "pushes boundaries" by being offensive, that their inevitable supporters never mention their suckiness. (I'm looking at you, 2 Live Crew) I get that people didn't want them censored, but just once I would like to hear someone say "We support the right of even crappy, misogynist acts to be heard. We also encourage people to avoid buying their CD".


Here's an interview in which Tim Quirk of Too Much Joy talks about covering 2 Live Crew for 1st amendment reasons: http://www.avclub.com/article/too-much-joy-13644 From the interview: "I had to transcribe the 2 Live Crew songs, and I'm here to tell you, they are crap. They have almost no redeeming value. They're just bad. They're dumb, they're not intelligent. They don't shine a light on anything, really; it's just poorly done and poorly made. What offended me the most about it wasn't the curse words or the way they talked about women; it was just the lack of any gleam of intelligence in it. It was just, "Hello, we're stupid, and if you buy our music, you are stupid."


BULLSHIT!

The Crew is straight up Miami Booty Bass and one of the genre's pioneers. They've never claimed to be anything else and anyone looking for something else is missing the point.

Their music was never about the lyrics, it's about that B-A-S-S BASS!

Everything else was just filler.

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Re: Free speech heros

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Mon Dec 23, 2013 10:59 pm

Remember_Me wrote:The Crew is straight up Miami Booty Bass and one of the genre's pioneers. They've never claimed to be anything else and anyone looking for something else is missing the point.

Their music was never about the lyrics, it's about that B-A-S-S BASS!

Everything else was just filler.

Stupid, misogynistic, offensive filler.
If it's just about the bass, might as well just be an instrumental, no?

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Re: Free speech heros

Postby Remember_Me » Tue Dec 24, 2013 12:28 am

Prof. Wagstaff wrote:Stupid, misogynistic, offensive filler.


Yup.

Prof. Wagstaff wrote:If it's just about the bass, might as well just be an instrumental, no?


I'd agree with that.

But when there's ego, fame, and fortune at stake, you stamp your name on it somehow and create a scheme to make it sell. Which Luther Campbell, like Larry Flynt before him, did masterfully.

Campbell sold millions of records with the ANATWB album alone being certified double platinum by the RIAA.

Campbell has laughed and cussed his way to the bank ever since.

Hell, give me $50 million and I'll call a woman a bitch every day of the week. And twice on Sundays for no extra charge.

So is what he said on his albums stupid.... or brilliant?


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