Austerity

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.
kurt_w
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Austerity

Postby kurt_w » Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:22 pm

Government spending is dropping at a rate unprecedented in the modern era:

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In previous economic downturns during Republican presidencies (Reagan 1982, Bush I 1991, Bush II 2001), government spending increases to compensate. In this economic downturn, spending has decreased:

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This is unprecedented. We have an economy that could be growing much faster. Inflation is negligible. But instead of using the government to promote recovery -- as we have done during every previous modern downturn -- we're cutting spending and further hobbling economic growth.

Yeah, the economy is doing better today than it was five years ago. But are we really satisfied with this? Millions of people are unemployed or underemployed.

fennel
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Re: Austerity

Postby fennel » Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:30 pm

The Rs are certainly satisfied with this. Economic sabotage works for them.

Ned Flanders
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Re: Austerity

Postby Ned Flanders » Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:57 pm

We can all feel the penny pinching.
Image

gargantua
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Re: Austerity

Postby gargantua » Fri Dec 13, 2013 4:02 pm

Yes, but the rich are doing extremely well. Just think how much better they'd be doing if they didn't have to worry about the rest of us riff-raff holding them down!

Rich Schultz
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Re: Austerity

Postby Rich Schultz » Fri Dec 13, 2013 4:34 pm

So what do you think? Another round of "Cash for Clunkers"?

snoqueen
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Re: Austerity

Postby snoqueen » Fri Dec 13, 2013 5:21 pm

Translation: he likes things just the way they are, and would prefer it if we spent even less and went back into recession territory.

Right?

I'm going to have to keep on posting translations of Rich's posts due to the fact they go over the heads of ordinary mortals and require unique psychic powers to decode. Hope y'all don't mind too much.

Sandi
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Re: Austerity

Postby Sandi » Fri Dec 13, 2013 5:57 pm

snoqueen wrote:Translation: he likes things just the way they are, and would prefer it if we spent even less and went back into recession territory.

Right?

I'm going to have to keep on posting translations of Rich's posts due to the fact they go over the heads of ordinary mortals and require unique psychic powers to decode. Hope y'all don't mind too much.


kurt_w's linkless information is about as phoney as Obama's "If you like your plan you can keep it."

peripat
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Re: Austerity

Postby peripat » Fri Dec 13, 2013 6:23 pm

What? You have documentation that government spending is actually increasing drastically? Link?

Stebben84
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Re: Austerity

Postby Stebben84 » Fri Dec 13, 2013 6:51 pm

Pffft!

bdog
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Re: Austerity

Postby bdog » Fri Dec 13, 2013 6:51 pm

This article is kurt's wet dream

And I don't mean that in a bad way.

Yikes:

Image

kurt_w
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Re: Austerity

Postby kurt_w » Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:57 pm

Sandi wrote:kurt_w's linkless information is [...] phoney

Link 1, Link 2.


Yeah, that's great. Though some of those graphs could be cleaned up a bit.

Did you notice that one of the two graphs at the top of this thread is included on that page? The "Link 2" I gave Sandi above is to its original source, but it's also in your list of 44 charts.

Sandi
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Re: Austerity

Postby Sandi » Fri Dec 13, 2013 11:54 pm

Ah yes. and why is Krugman including the states? He has always been one to play the numbers. As the saying goes: "Figures don't lie, but liars figure."

The national debate is about federal spending, not what the states are spending. As most states not running deficits, I guess he needs them to skew his chart downwards.

Post a chart of Federal spending alone and I will take a look at it.

jonnygothispen
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Re: Austerity

Postby jonnygothispen » Sat Dec 14, 2013 12:11 am

I know you aren't sincere about analyzing federal spending, Sandi, but I'll post a couple anyway...

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3849

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/obama- ... 2012-05-22

Mad Howler
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Re: Austerity

Postby Mad Howler » Sat Dec 14, 2013 2:21 am

Laissez-faire + austerity = immense benefit for a very few.
Must be nice to live in this bubble.
What a fine, walled off, bubble it is!
Such purely manufactured oblivion.

The rest can suck it, 
As you are skimmed.
  

kurt_w
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Re: Austerity

Postby kurt_w » Sat Dec 14, 2013 7:16 am

Sandi wrote:Ah yes. and why is Krugman including the states? He has always been one to play the numbers. As the saying goes: "Figures don't lie, but liars figure."

The national debate is about federal spending, not what the states are spending.

You have that backwards. What matters for creating demand and stimulating investment is the total being spent across all levels of government -- local, state, and federal. If the federal government boosted spending by $100 billion but states cut back by $200 billion, that net decrease would reduce economic activity and hobble growth.

During an economic downturn, households cut back on spending, and businesses cut back on spending. The government is the only actor able to break this cycle by stimulating demand that businesses can respond to.

The alternative, of course, is for government to cut spending too, which translates to reduced economic activity, further layoffs and disinvestment by businesses, and further cutbacks by households.

This downward spiral is exactly what's happening on the other side of the Atlantic. Is that the path we should be following? I don't think so!

If you are concerned about long-term government spending growth, the time to cut back is during an economic boom, not during a downturn. As people might recall, we actually had a substantial and growing budget surplus in 2000.

And a very important note -- cutting public spending is NOT the path we've followed during previous recessions under Reagan, Bush 1, or Bush 2. It's only when there's a Democrat in the White House that the conservative pundit class suddenly begins demanding austerity.


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