A Brief History of Conservative Victories

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.
Huckleby
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A Brief History of Conservative Victories

Postby Huckleby » Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:21 am

Rich Schultz wrote:
Huckleby wrote: We're gonna make Obamacare work.
How's it going so far? LOL


Rich's taunt has gotten me to thinking: why am I so damn confident that universal health care is going to happen? One just has to examine the won-loss record of conservative positions.

Civil War - slavery overturned
Women's suffrage
Worker protections in 1930's - overtime pay, unemployment insurance, etc.
Social Security
Civil Rights Movement
Minimum Wage
Medicare
Medicaid
Marriage Equality

When I look at the big conservative wins, they have come out of the Reagan era:
1) Deregulation of Wall Street
2) Lower taxes, Republican party united against new taxes
3) Unions crushed
4) A strong right-wing media entrenched

The conservative movement is powerful. But they won't be able to resist the logic, appeal and decency of universal health care. Obamacare is not the last word, but it has established the beach head.

wack wack
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Re: A Brief History of Conservative Victories

Postby wack wack » Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:40 am

Liberals win, every time. It may take years, decades, centuries even, but the liberal philosophy always wins.

And what do you know, the four items you list as conservative "victories" are the top four reasons cited for the continuance of our 30 year economic slide.

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Re: A Brief History of Conservative Victories

Postby snoqueen » Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:54 am

Consider the terms progressive and conservative instead of liberal/con. Progress almost always trumps conserving as in holding on to the past. This is because time runs in one direction and the turnover of generations is inescapable.

The one condition under which everything gets thrown backward is destruction of the whole system. And we really don't want that, entertaining as it might be to imagine we could all return to the wild west or the antebellum South or whatever is your favorite golden age.

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Re: A Brief History of Conservative Victories

Postby wack wack » Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:07 am

snoqueen wrote:The one condition under which everything gets thrown backward is destruction of the whole system. And we really don't want that, entertaining as it might be to imagine we could all return to the wild west or the antebellum South or whatever is your favorite golden age.


Over the last few days, the phrase "burn it down" has blown up on the radio, apparently the new conservative talking point: better to destroy the whole thing than give on anything.

I once believed another violent civil war could never, ever happen here. Now I'm not so sure.

rabble
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Re: A Brief History of Conservative Victories

Postby rabble » Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:13 am

wack wack wrote:Over the last few days, the phrase "burn it down" has blown up on the radio, apparently the new conservative talking point: better to destroy the whole thing than give on anything.

I once believed another violent civil war could never, ever happen here. Now I'm not so sure.

Well hopefully this time around things might be different. The last one happened because Lincoln wanted the union preserved at all cost. Obama has made many bad decisions but I don't think he would feel the same way Lincoln did. Let 'em secede.

Wisconsin has gone way over to the wingnut side lately but I don't think it's gone far enough to secede.

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Re: A Brief History of Conservative Victories

Postby Stella_Guru » Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:14 am

Huckleby wrote:The conservative movement is powerful. But they won't be able to resist the logic, appeal and decency of universal health care. Obamacare is not the last word, but it has established the beach head.

Ha, good one. But congrats, your paradoxes and contradictions mirror the neo-liberal incarnate quite well.

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Re: A Brief History of Conservative Victories

Postby Rich Schultz » Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:28 am

...big conservative wins...

2014

penquin
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Re: A Brief History of Conservative Victories

Postby penquin » Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:52 am

wack wack wrote:I once believed another violent civil war could never, ever happen here. Now I'm not so sure.


Henry told us it could never-ever happen in America. And he's a teacher. With many college degrees.

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Re: A Brief History of Conservative Victories

Postby kurt_w » Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:53 am

Rich Schultz wrote:
...big conservative wins...

2014

Having gotten their butts kicked in three of the last four elections, it would be about time.

In the "Crystal Ball" thread I already told you guys the future, anyway. GOP wins the senate in 2014, then loses the Senate and the White House in 2016.

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Re: A Brief History of Conservative Victories

Postby wack wack » Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:56 am

penquin wrote:
wack wack wrote:I once believed another violent civil war could never, ever happen here. Now I'm not so sure.


Henry told us it could never-ever happen in America. And he's a teacher. With many college degrees.


Even a teacher with multiple degrees and as much experience as Henry could not predict the absurd delusion displayed by the right wing these days.

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Re: A Brief History of Conservative Victories

Postby Roy » Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:59 am

Huckleby wrote:But they won't be able to resist the logic, appeal and decency of universal health care.


Logic? Is that why all the democrats are running away from it? Is that why most people are against it?

Huckleby wrote:Obamacare is not the last word, but it has established the beach head.


So was the burning of Washington by the British.

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Re: A Brief History of Conservative Victories

Postby kurt_w » Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:04 pm

kurt_w wrote:
Rich Schultz wrote:
...big conservative wins...

2014

Having gotten their butts kicked in three of the last four elections, it would be about time.

In the "Crystal Ball" thread I already told you guys the future, anyway. GOP wins the senate in 2014, then loses the Senate and the White House in 2016.

Hey, I just realized that other thread was exactly one year ago today.

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Re: A Brief History of Conservative Victories

Postby wack wack » Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:05 pm

Sandi wrote:
Huckleby wrote:But they won't be able to resist the logic, appeal and decency of universal health care.


Logic? Is that why all the democrats are running away from it? Is that why most people are against it?

Huckleby wrote:Obamacare is not the last word, but it has established the beach head.


So was the burning of Washington by the British.


All the democrats are not running away, and the only people against Obamacare are those who continue to feed on FOX lies.

These talking points were debunked and dropped long ago. Did you miss the memo?

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Re: A Brief History of Conservative Victories

Postby penquin » Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:09 pm

wack wack wrote:...the only people against Obamacare are those who continue to feed on FOX lies.


So the Individual Mandate is just another FoxNews Lie, and people aren't really required under penalty of law to purchase a product/service from a for-profit corporation?

Huckleby
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Re: A Brief History of Conservative Victories

Postby Huckleby » Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:16 pm

Sandi wrote:
Huckleby wrote:But they won't be able to resist the logic, appeal and decency of universal health care.


Logic? Is that why all the democrats are running away from it? Is that why most people are against it?


People are in favor of most key aspects of Obamacare - the ability of all to have health insurance of some sort, the elimination of pre-existing conditions discrimination.

Obamacare has moved the goal posts, going forward we are not going to have solutions that "save money" by leaving the sick and poor without health care.

It's going to be a ten year struggle.


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