Detroit: Bankrupt

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Ned Flanders
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Detroit: Bankrupt

Postby Ned Flanders » Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:03 pm

"Workers' paradise" going down in flames. Sad.

'Insolvent' Detroit can proceed with bankruptcy, judge rules

Detroit is eligible to file for the largest municipal bankruptcy in U.S. history, a judge ruled Tuesday, underscoring the city’s dire financial condition.

U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Steven Rhodes issued a verbal ruling which is expected to be followed by a written opinion later Tuesday.

"The city no longer has the resources to provide its citizens with basic police, fire and emergency services," Judge Rhodes said, ruling that Detroit, once the nation's fourth-largest city, "was and is insolvent."
http://www.nbcnews.com/business/insolve ... 2D11687462

Jattpw
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Re: Detroit: Bankrupt

Postby Jattpw » Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:17 pm

This is an amazing story. And I don't know that there are any good answers. Bankruptcy is a short term answer for current pension debt and bills but the basic reality is that this is a City with an infrastructure and square miles for 1.4 million people and there are only 600,000 people living there. The housing values are minimal and there isn't income to tax. The City can't support itself yet there are still 600,000 people living there expecting some level of services. What do they do?

O.J.
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Re: Detroit: Bankrupt

Postby O.J. » Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:22 pm

But...but...but I thought that government was supposed to be run like a business. Ya know, kinda like this guy:

Image

wack wack
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Re: Detroit: Bankrupt

Postby wack wack » Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:29 pm

Jattpw wrote:The City can't support itself yet there are still 600,000 people living there expecting some level of services. What do they do?


Not trying to make light of very sad, ugly situation, but I can't help but remember the late, sometimes great Sam Kinison's thoughts on wold hunger:

"You live in the DESERT! Move to where the FOOD IS!!!! OH-OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHH!!!

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Re: Detroit: Bankrupt

Postby gargantua » Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:57 pm

Anybody else think Ned doesn't really find this sad? Aside from considering the source, the snide "worker's paradise" comment gives it away.

I think corrupt and inept leadership had more to do with the situation, but why focus on that when you can blame workers? How dare they expect to be fairly compensated for their labor!

Ned Flanders
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Re: Detroit: Bankrupt

Postby Ned Flanders » Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:22 pm

There was a long story in last Friday's WSJ about selling off priceless pieces from the Detroit Art Museum. It's sad, but Detroit didn't adjust it's spending when population and tax revenues tanked. In fact, they borrowed money to pay the bills, included padded union jobs and salaries. I'm sure the unions will be bailed out by Obama, but they helped create this death spiral. That, and unrestrained corruption and graft by their Democrat overlords.
Last edited by Ned Flanders on Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Detroit: Bankrupt

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:24 pm

wack wack wrote:
Jattpw wrote:The City can't support itself yet there are still 600,000 people living there expecting some level of services. What do they do?


Not trying to make light of very sad, ugly situation, but I can't help but remember the late, sometimes great Sam Kinison's thoughts on wold hunger:

"You live in the DESERT! Move to where the FOOD IS!!!! OH-OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHH!!!

Funny, and sadly true. the jobs that supported Detroit aren't coming back, and the majority of the people remaining behind aren't going to be the desired employees of the next stage in Detroit's economy barring a strong investment in retraining.

Jattpw
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Re: Detroit: Bankrupt

Postby Jattpw » Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:08 pm

So what if the people in Detroit don't decide to move out and/or others just move in. Although some areas are in drastic disrepair there are some areas that still function and other areas, lakefront property, that seems like it will be desirable.
Here is the percent of vacant lots in the City:
http://datadrivendetroit.org/wp-content ... _Final.pdf

Over half the city has over a 25% vacancy rate and that is based upon 2000 census. At this point probably half the City is empty. There needs to be some effort to increase density in certain sub-cities and then bulldose the rest of it and start over. The issue of course is that would be government engineering into peoples freedoms at a level never before seen in the US. But what are the other options? At least real ghost towns actually emptied out at some point. It doesn't seem like Detroit will get there for a long time.

What is your answer Ned?

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Re: Detroit: Bankrupt

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:28 pm

Ned blames unions, government workers and progressives in general. Listen to your pope, Ned. He blames trickle down economics.

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Re: Detroit: Bankrupt

Postby snoqueen » Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:29 pm

Stupid attempts to blame Detroit on the Democrats aside, what remains of the city -- in terms of land, buildings, and infrastructure -- is turning into one of the great social laboratories of the 21st century.

Land reclamation? Urban homesteading? Neighborhood dynamics? It's all happening, and more. Along with a big cooperative influence, there's a strong libertarian flavor in some places.

You guys should quit blaming people and start looking around. Detroit could get really interesting.

Ned Flanders
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Re: Detroit: Bankrupt

Postby Ned Flanders » Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:50 pm

Riiiiight. Because lefties would never blame Republicans if they ran one of America's great cities into the shitter.

And we will be bailing out these clowns, one way or another.

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Re: Detroit: Bankrupt

Postby rabble » Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:53 pm

Ned Flanders wrote:And we will be bailing out these clowns, one way or another.

Yeah, we better let it rot so we can make sure it never contributes to the public good again.

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Re: Detroit: Bankrupt

Postby Jattpw » Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:03 pm

Seriously Ned. Not looking backwards but looking forwards. What is your answer? I don't disagree about mismanagement and I agree that a fair share of it can be attributed to close ties between officials borrowing funds to keep the pensions afloat and yes those leaders have all been democrats and yes there is a political power structure that exists between unions and governments that can cause problems.

But what now? This is your chance to rule the world (or at least one disfunctional part of it.) What would you do with it starting today?

All you have said is we will end up throwing money at the problem. Hopefully there is a better answer than that. Or at least a slightly more complete answer.

Ned Flanders
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Re: Detroit: Bankrupt

Postby Ned Flanders » Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:12 pm

I actually agree with the Snoqueen. Test some new stuff: opportunity zones, industrial clean-up ideas, etc. What Detroit can't do is limp along with the same graft and patronage schemes that got it there.

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Re: Detroit: Bankrupt

Postby Rich Schultz » Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:52 pm

Start the clean-up here.
"John James Conyers, Jr. (born May 16, 1929) is the U.S. Representative for Michigan's 13th congressional district,[2] serving in Congress since 1965 (the district was numbered as the 1st District until 1993, and as the 14th district from 1993 to 2013). The district includes the western half of Detroit, as well as Dearborn, Highland Park, and most of the downriver suburbs including Wyandotte and Romulus. He is a member of the Democratic Party. He is currently the second longest-serving incumbent member of the House, after fellow Michigan Democratic Congressman John Dingell and the second-longest incumbent member of the entire Congress by length of service, also after Dingell.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Conyers

"The longest-serving member of Congress, Dingell has been in office for 57 years, 355 days. Dingell is also the longest-currently-serving member of Congress.[3] Having remained in the House of Representatives for his entire Congressional career, he is also the longest ever to serve exclusively in the House, the longest-serving Dean of the U.S. House of Representatives, and the Dean of the Michigan congressional delegation. Dingell is one of two World War II veterans still serving in Congress; the other is Texas Congressman Ralph Hall.[4]
Dingell's district was first in western Detroit, but redistricting has successively moved him further into the city's western suburbs"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Dingell


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