The next George Zimmerman case?

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Dangerousman
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The next George Zimmerman case?

Postby Dangerousman » Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:39 pm

Man charged in Detroit-area woman's shooting death:

A Michigan man who claimed he accidentally shot and killed a 19-year-old woman he thought was trying to break into his Dearborn Heights home this month will be charged with second-degree murder, manslaughter and possession of a firearm in the commission of a felony, Wayne County Prosecutor Kym Worthy said Friday.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/15/justice/michigan-woman-shot-charges/

Fatal Shooting of Black Woman Outside Detroit Stirs Racial Tensions

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/15/us/fatal-shooting-of-black-woman-outside-detroit-stirs-racial-tensions.html?_r=0

Here we go. Another backlash along racial grounds, but the prosecutor claims race has nothing to do with the decision to throw the book at this guy.

Some shades of the Heimsness shooting in Madison too, since the person shot was under the influence at the time too-- although, while that was quite possibly a factor in her car crash, I don't know if it played any direct role in the shooting itself.

It'll be one to watch.

Henry Vilas
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Re: The next George Zimmerman case?

Postby Henry Vilas » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:06 pm

We all know what side you are on.

massimo
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Re: The next George Zimmerman case?

Postby massimo » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:17 pm

This will be an important test of the "moat doctrine" laws.

Sandi
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Re: The next George Zimmerman case?

Postby Sandi » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:32 pm

As much as the progressives love to make anything they can a race issue, this in no way has any relation to the Zimmerman case.

Self defense doesn't start until they cross the threshold into your house, or make a threatening gesture outside of it. It appears neither happened here, and the prosecutor is right with a charge of murder.

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Re: The next George Zimmerman case?

Postby rabble » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:35 pm

Sandi wrote:As much as the progressives love to make anything they can a race issue, this in no way has any relation to the Zimmerman case.

Okay you did notice who started the thread and chose the title, right?

I can't remember which of the articles I read on this incident ended with "we had to charge him or we'll have dozens of bodies next New Year's Eve."

I also assume, because the word "race" is being thrown out there so often, that the shooter is not black. I don't think there's been any info at all about him except that he's male, 54, and a homeowner.

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Re: The next George Zimmerman case?

Postby Henry Vilas » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:41 pm

Sandi wrote:As much as the progressives love to make anything they can a race issue, this in no way has any relation to the Zimmerman case.

Are you calling DMan a progressive?

Sandi wrote:Self defense doesn't start until they cross the threshold into your house, or make a threatening gesture outside of it. It appears neither happened here, and the prosecutor is right with a charge of murder.

Are you sure, as Michigan has both a castle doctrine law and a stand your ground law? In Wisconsin, a guy got away with shooting a drunk on his porch.

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Re: The next George Zimmerman case?

Postby Stebben84 » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:51 pm

Dangerousman wrote:with the decision to throw the book at this guy.


No bias there. Second degree murder if pretty fitting if you ask me. What else would they charge him with?

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Re: The next George Zimmerman case?

Postby Dangerousman » Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:09 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:We all know what side you are on.


Yes, I'm on the side of justice. I haven't formed an opinion about the guilt of the shooter, although you and many others have.

But what do we know?

1. Guy claims he shot her accidentally. (Ok, that's an admission of some sort and it depends on what he means by "accidental." If he meant the gun when off when he didn't intend it to go off, then he's admitted to negligent homicide. If he meant he shot intentionally while under the mistaken impression that she was trying to break into his house, then that's tragic but not necessarily criminal.)

2) The shooter was the only witness (as far as I know).

3) Second degree murder charge indicates that the prosecutor must think they can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the shooter intended to kill her and there wasn't anything mistaken or accidental about it. How you do that without witnesses could be interesting.

4) We know that there was some public outcry, just like Zimmerman's case and it makes one wonder of the prosecutor truly decided to prosecute without regard to public pressures.

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Re: The next George Zimmerman case?

Postby wack wack » Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:20 pm

We also know there is no evidence that the victim tried to enter the house.

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Re: The next George Zimmerman case?

Postby Dangerousman » Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:28 pm

Sandi wrote:Self defense doesn't start until they cross the threshold into your house, or make a threatening gesture outside of it.


That's a bit of a myth and I don't know what your basis is for asserting it. It doesn't seem to be true under Michigan law from the way I read it, and it's far from true under Wisconsin law. If you read the 'castle doctrine' portion of Wisconsin's law one's "dwelling" isn't just the house itself but "includes other existing structures on the immediate residential premises such as driveways, sidewalks, swimming pools, terraces, patios, fences, porches, garages, and basements."

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Re: The next George Zimmerman case?

Postby rabble » Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:29 pm

Dangerousman wrote:I haven't formed an opinion about the guilt of the shooter, although you and many others have.

Oh? And how do you know that?

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Re: The next George Zimmerman case?

Postby Dangerousman » Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:42 pm

wack wack wrote:We also know there is no evidence that the victim tried to enter the house.


What the victim intended to do isn't necessarily important. What is important is whether the shooter's interpretation of what the victim was doing was reasonable under the circumstances:

3:40 in the morning, the homeowner wakes and hears noises at the front door, concludes it's an attempted break-in and responds with shotgun and shoots. Under the circumstances, was that a reasonable shooting? (Could be other factors considered too, e.g., have there been previous break-in's there, and so on.) Personally, if there are no other factors introduced, I think my actions would have been different than this shooter's.

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Re: The next George Zimmerman case?

Postby Dangerousman » Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:47 pm

rabble wrote:
Dangerousman wrote:I haven't formed an opinion about the guilt of the shooter, although you and many others have.

Oh? And how do you know that?


Same way Henry thinks he knows I have formed an opinion and that he thinks he knows what it is... plus the fact two people have already said they agree a 2nd degree murder charge is fitting.

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Re: The next George Zimmerman case?

Postby rabble » Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:52 pm

Dangerousman wrote:
rabble wrote:
Dangerousman wrote:I haven't formed an opinion about the guilt of the shooter, although you and many others have.

Oh? And how do you know that?


Same way Henry thinks he knows I have formed an opinion and that he thinks he knows what it is... plus the fact two people have already said they agree a 2nd degree murder charge is fitting.

Ah. I see. Since Henry says he knows what side you're on, he must have formed an opinion on everything else.

And two people equals "many."

Okay. You're ready for jury duty.

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Re: The next George Zimmerman case?

Postby fisticuffs » Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:56 pm

I don't need any more info to decide if it's murder. Someone was shot to death who was in no way invading a home or posing a threat. Regardless of the shooter's intent they killed an innocent person. Unfortunately the courts may not see it that way thanks to the NRA shoving their laws through the MI legislature. Manslaughter at a minimum.


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