Batfleck

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Bludgeon
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Batfleck

Postby Bludgeon » Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:08 am

[Note: keeping this out of the 'Movies' thread because its more about comics and why terrorize the moviegoers for two years with the specter of Batfleck?]
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As some of you may know, Ben Affleck has managed to ply enough drinks and drop enough roofies that Warner Brothers finally passed out and succumbed to his unwanted advances and when it was all over WB was heavy with the seed of a new Bats/Supes movie, and some drunken executive signed over the role of Batman to one Benjamin Geza Affleck.

Pertinant information: This sparked a petition at change.org beseeching Warner Brothers to remove Ben Affleck from the film. The petition garnered 50,000 signatures in the first thirty six hours and as of this writing, eighty thousand good people have taken the time out of their day to sign the petition. Results? Maybe. One Warner Brothers executive when asked whether the company was reconsidering their decision to cast the failed Daredevil star in the role of the Dark Knight only answered, "No comment."

Maybe there are more important things in the world... This just seems like one of those avoidable catastrophes that needs not to happen. It's a multi-feature deal, by the way. Have we all been bad enough this year that we deserve to see this awful thing come to pass? What did Bats do, to warrant this atrocity? More importantly, has he not saved all our lives enough times, that we as a society are behooved, just this once, to save the Batman from getting nerd-raped by a covetous movie star with a hard on for super heroes?

Wagstaff, Marvell, I know you're out there.

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Re: Batfleck

Postby Cameron Connors » Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:34 am

I've found myself in the unenviable role of Ben Affleck apologist.

I'll lead with citing Hollywoodland as the example as to what this version of Batman/Affleck should be.

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Washed up, greying, drunk and sad with an unlimited supply of resources and a sociopathic obsessiveness. To me that version of Batman, a la Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns, has been by far the most compelling. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dark_Knight_Returns

If they go with this route of the Batman mythos, then the movie could be good. They likely won't, instead going with the bland sanitized Superman arch of the last film.

In addition, Argo is a good movie. Gone Baby Gone is a good movie. The Town is a good movie. However little he had in actually putting together Good Will Hunting, he was still involved.

He's a big dood (which, generally, Batman has been portrayed as, due to his lack of other natural superpowers), and, especially if he lets his natural grey show, looks the part, butt-chin and all.

I get it. Daredevil was not good, but it was mired in the early throes of Superheroitis of Hollywood. If the studios let Affleck go full George Reeves by way of Frank Miller, this could be a gem.

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Re: Batfleck

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:08 am

Right now I'm trying to hold on to the hope that Afleck will do a decent job if for no other reason then Kevin Smith will bitch slap the fuck out of Ben if he doesn't.

Of course every other serious action role he's had kind of kills that hope.

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Re: Batfleck

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:29 am

Bludgeon wrote:Wagstaff, Marvell, I know you're out there.
Well, if you're gonna call me out directly for some reason, I guess I must respond, eh?

I don't give a rat's ass about this.
Yes, Daredevil sucked ass and Affleck, although he's shown some promise, ain't the greatest actor around. So what?
Are we now pretending that Christian Bale is some kind of thespian genius? Or any of the other HUGE stars that have played this role. The part of Batman does not go to a deserving unknown, it goes to a well-known bankable commodity (with the possible exception of Michael Keaton, who was considered a very odd choice when originally cast, if anyone cares to remember.)

Then there's the fact that Batman movies aren't exactly the crowning achievements of cinema. I liked the Nolan trilogy, but did not love them. I think they were very overrated (and very, very overlong) and I didn't much care for any of the previous series (the 1st Tim Burton Batman looked great, but it's not a very good movie. The second one sucked. The post-Burton ones were abominations.)
But most importantly, I am not in the habit of reviewing the performance of actors in movies which have not yet been made because... well... the phrase "utter foolishness" comes to mind.

Truth be told, I just don't care.
And I haven't even seen Man of Steel, so it's particularly hard for me to get jazzed or anticipate disappointment about a proposed sequel/tie-in to it.

Make Mine Marvel.

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Re: Batfleck

Postby Bludgeon » Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:52 am

Prof. Wagstaff wrote:Well, if you're gonna call me out directly for some reason, I guess I must respond, eh?

Make Mine Marvel.

Just figured you were kind of a comics kind of guy. I suppose a lot of people are these days. For me, that's still hard to get used to. I remember growing up being the only kid in school who read comics in some of the towns I lived in. I remember I didn't meet my first girl-who-reads-comics until I was 19 and I was like "really?" It was like meeting a unicorn. Unicorns are everywhere these days now, but the gigundo-bosomed cosplay girls are a tale for another thread.

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Batfleck, now, I just think it's a crime. Like an abomination. I don't really dislike BA, I just kiiiiiinda can't ... possibly... take him seriously as a person who wants to play a serious role.

Flip side, "Extract" was one of my favorite recent movies. I thought Affleck played the part of a ditzed out RX bartender perfectly.

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Re: Batfleck

Postby Cameron Connors » Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:15 pm

Couldn't disagree more on the Burton Batmans. They are weird and dark and mean like Batman's s'posed to be. He just kills everyone like a psycho vigilante would...only comically. Burton's going for jokes the whole time. Whether it's a guy getting his nose bitten off to when Bats kicks the clown down the hole with TNT strapped to him like a Wile E. Coyote stand-in. The callback by Nolan where Bale tanks his supermoped in front of Ledger in contrast to Keaton barrelling down on Nicholson with a jet dropping bombs is telling, I think, to the unfailing morality nonsense Nolan wanted to impart. Man, Michael Keaton is great.

To be fair to Bale, i do think the idea is to ham up the gravely crazy a bit with Bats, but yeah, not a performance for the ages. Keaton worked so well due to being just naturally weird, so no straining.

I do agree that the Nolan ones are overrated, especially the third, which was bloated and cliched, just ick with the nuke stuff, the prison suff, etc. The second one is 2/3s of a great movie. The first is solid if a bit forgettable. It's got Neeson in top form, too, none of his Battleship slumming.

Affleck just needs to shake the Giglis out before roles, because when he tries it seems to work. I hate to keep banging the Hollywoodland drum, but him jumping around a ring covered in alcoholic fop sweat is a performance high for him. As Bludgeon related, he's good in Extract, and, along the sad comedy vein, pretty good in Dogma.

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Re: Batfleck

Postby Marvell » Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:28 pm

I don't know where I got this reputation as a comic book guy; I borrowed some of Bobby Northrup's comics when I was a kid, but he was a JLA* guy and I got a little tired of reading the exploits of Duo Damsel and Lightning Lad.

I have a passing familiarity with the major DC and Marvel heros, like pretty much any other former-teenage male, but to call me a fanboy would be a pretty big stretch.

When I was in college my roommates and I briefly got into collecting Swamp Thing and the first runs of Hellblazer and Sandman. After I got out of college I didn't have the money for anything as discretionary as comic books.

As far as Mr. Affleck - I saw Daredevil and I agree that it sucked, but Ben wasn't really the worst part of it; that distinction goes to Jennifer Garner and the whole conception of the Kingpin character. Colin Farrell was actually pretty good as Bullseye.

I don't have a lot of hope that he'll be a good Batman - although as the Prof already pointed out, it's not like the previous Batmen exactly adorned themselves with thespian glory (I do disagree about Christian Bale; he's one of my favorite contemporary actors). Frankly, I was more offended by Affleck being cast as Ned Alleyn in Shakespeare in Love.

I do have a sense of ever-lasting regret that no one put together a decent Dark Knight Returns script when Clint Eastwood wasn't too old to play the part. It's pretty much the dream casting, and I can't believe everyone in Hollywood was too stupid to figure that out.

Actually, based upon Ryan Renolds' continuing career as a big-budget blockbuster leading man, I can believe that everyone in Hollywood is too stupid.

*JLA = Justice League of America

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Re: Batfleck

Postby Cameron Connors » Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:35 pm

Clint could still do it. He'd just have to get Superman to sit in a chair and start yammering. See, everyone? The reboot has kryptonite after all!

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Re: Batfleck

Postby Bludgeon » Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:47 pm

Marvell wrote:I don't know where I got this reputation as a comic book guy; I borrowed some of Bobby Northrup's comics when I was a kid, but he was a JLA* guy and I got a little tired of reading the exploits of Duo Damsel and Lightning Lad.


Sorry if I've mischaracterized you all this time, but the reason is your moniker.

**Marvell is a name most silver age nerds would assume only a lifestyle comics nerd would choose: Mar-Vell, Kree spy turned treasonist, exiled to the Negative Zone, able to use the nega-bands and his telepathic link with the Hulk's friend Rick Jones, to trade places with the young human at times of dire need.

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I don't know what it is about DC, most of their books always seemed to read like an Archie comic. No diss to Arch though.

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Re: Batfleck

Postby Marvell » Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:54 pm

Bludgeon wrote:
Marvell wrote:I don't know where I got this reputation as a comic book guy


Sorry if I've mischaracterized you all this time, but the reason is your moniker.



Let me clear that up for ya.

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Re: Batfleck

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:15 pm

Bludgeon wrote:Just figured you were kind of a comics kind of guy.

I am (although I literally only read Marvel), but my expectations for comic book movies are decidedly low. I've enjoyed all of the Avengers movies to some degree or another, and most of the X-Men (still haven't seen First Class or any of the Wolverine flicks though.) But both Hulk movies sucked, the Fantastic Fours were atrocious, and only the first (first) Spider-Man did anything for me (I've yet to see the reboot.) So again, we're not talking about a series of cinematic masterpieces here. (The Avengers was about as good as a summer blockbuster could be, IMO, but I'm not going to argue it was any kind of classic film.) I didn't see Superman Returns and as I said, still haven't caught Man Of Steel (I keep meaning to check it out at the budget flicks, but I've heard nothing good, so it's not like I'm expecting much.) To be honest, Pacific Rim is easily the best comic book-style movie I've seen in a while. Now that was fun.

Bludgeon wrote:Batfleck, now, I just think it's a crime. Like an abomination. I don't really dislike BA, I just kiiiiiinda can't ... possibly... take him seriously as a person who wants to play a serious role.
Again, this is exactly what folks said when they heard Michael Keaton had been cast and he acquitted himself admirably. No, Affleck wouldn't be my choice (if I had my druthers, they'd've cast an unknown -- worked pretty damn well with Christopher Reeve, I'd argue -- instead of a big star who brings baggage to the role, but I know that's not gonna happen in this day and age) but I can certainly think of worse choices. More important than acting chops is how you're gonna look in the mask, frankly.

Cameron Connors wrote:Couldn't disagree more on the Burton Batmans. They are weird and dark and mean like Batman's s'posed to be.
As I said, they look fantastic, but while the 1st one is moderately entertaining to me, the second one is awfully bad. And I've always found it strange that everyone heaped so much praise on Nicholson for playing Joker exactly the way just about anyone else would have (there's no question that Ledger's take was far better.) Keaton was pretty great, but by the 2nd one, I think he'd already lost interest. Catwoman and Penguin were horribly written and Pfeiffer was bad in the part. And anyone casting Kim Basinger in anything and expecting her to act is simply a fool. There's just a lot of wasted screen time in both of those films that could've been put to way better use. One of the downfalls of almost all superhero movies is the neverending insistence on telling origins (this is why I never went to the Spider-Man reboot, to be honest.) If you don't already know who Batman or Superman is and how they got that way you don't care.

Cameron Connors wrote:Burton's going for jokes the whole time. Whether it's a guy getting his nose bitten off to when Bats kicks the clown down the hole with TNT strapped to him like a Wile E. Coyote stand-in.
Meh. Some of it works, some of it doesn't. The missile-strapped penguins in Returns are without a doubt one of the most idiotic visuals I've ever had the misfortune of suffering through. Also worth noting: Burton still showed promise when Batman came out, but he turned out to be pretty fucking awful in the long run (his last good movie -- and it is really great -- was Ed Wood. But he's also been responsible for Mars Attacks! and Planet Of The Apes, which are easily two of the worst movies I've ever had the misfortune of paying cash to see. Because of those two, I don't even give the guy a chance any more.)

Marvell wrote:As far as Mr. Affleck - I saw Daredevil and I agree that it sucked, but Ben wasn't really the worst part of it; that distinction goes to Jennifer Garner and the whole conception of the Kingpin character. Colin Farrell was actually pretty good as Bullseye.
I agree with all of this. Mostly, that movie was doomed from the moment someone greenlit the script.

Bludgeon wrote:I don't know what it is about DC, most of their books always seemed to read like an Archie comic.
I just never really cared for DC. Marvel's angsty heroes and their propensity to fight each other as often as villians has always appealed to me much more. Batman, of course, is an exception -- he was generally a much more interesting character than the standard DC hero.

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Re: Batfleck

Postby Bludgeon » Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:47 pm

Prof. Wagstaff wrote:Again, this is exactly what folks said when they heard Michael Keaton had been cast and he acquitted himself admirably.

People keep saying Keaton (who was great in the role). My thoughts: Clooney. Most like George Clooney.

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Batman they both most resemble: Adam West

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The worst part about Clooney and Affleck is that nobody will ever really believe they're capable of being a deeply troubled antihero. They belong married to Jennifer Lopez and starring in a TV doctor series'.

I don't think Keaton redeems Affleck; Affleck is more the unserious, zany POW! ZAP! kind of Batman, if he's any kind of Batman at all.

Hero mythology is actually kind of important to me. I realize it's just a movie, just a comic book, just a superhero, but I actually think it's somewhat damaging to us culturally to treat our heroes as unseriously as this.

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Re: Batfleck

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:51 pm

Well, as shitty as Batman & Robin was (and shitty it was -- diarrhetic, even), I think Clooney was perfectly fine in the role. His performance is one of the only things that wasn't absolutely abominable about that movie.

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Re: Batfleck

Postby dave esmond » Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:48 pm

Prof. Wagstaff wrote:Well, as shitty as Batman & Robin was (and shitty it was -- diarrhetic, even), I think Clooney was perfectly fine in the role. His performance is one of the only things that wasn't absolutely abominable about that movie.


Yep.

I liked Clooney...just not the movie.

I haven't really liked any of the Batman movies. None of them found the balance between Batman and Bruce Wayne. He's Batman...and he's James Bond. That's one of the coolest things about him. His alterego isn't a dope. Clooney probably came the closest for me to getting the balance right.

While I loved The Dark Knight books when they came out, none of the movies get's that balance right either. He's crazy, not an antihero in those.

I was a huge DC geek. I never cared for the constant whining in the Marvel books. I didn't find them more "real", just whinier. Of course I never was looking for realism in my comics anyway. Mostly I liked the artwork.

And Marvell...Duo Damsel and Lightning Lad are the Legion of Superhereos...not the JLA. Geez.

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Re: Batfleck

Postby rrnate » Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:57 pm

SAM ROCKWELL. That's who I want for Batman. It's who we deserve.

I am willing to accept Josh Brolin. Nicolas Cage would be fun too.

Basically, I want a crazy Batman. Christian Bale is pretty much an anti-actor in those Nolan movies, which is fine, because for the most part, Christopher Nolan makes actor-proof movies. (Inception is a Grade-A example.)


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