Free "upgrade" from paper ballots to touch screen

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jonnygothispen
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Free "upgrade" from paper ballots to touch screen

Postby jonnygothispen » Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:55 pm

You'll have to take Segway, but originally from Brian Bliss. They're making this offer to smaller towns in Wisconsin: http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/01/29 ... statewide/

bdog
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Re: Free "upgrade" from paper ballots to touch screen

Postby bdog » Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:27 pm

I think the Simpsons have best demonstrated the dangers of...


A clause present in every great commentary.

rabble
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Re: Free "upgrade" from paper ballots to touch screen

Postby rabble » Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:32 pm

We'll give you free voting machines. Just put these in there, and it will all be fine. No annoying paper trails. No problems with recounts. Just click the key and the number pops up.

For the recount, click the key again. See? Same number. No problem.

jonnygothispen
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Re: Free "upgrade" from paper ballots to touch screen

Postby jonnygothispen » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:21 am

I don't know how many people are familiar with Barbara With's May 31, 2011 complaint to the GAB about touch screen machines, but this is pretty revealing: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/05/2 ... in-Kennedy

rabble
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Re: Free "upgrade" from paper ballots to touch screen

Postby rabble » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:42 am

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and predict that this letter will not only not bother bdog, ned, x5, meade, and the rest of the circle jerk crowd, but they'll come up with many reasons why it's just plain ridiculous and anyway, the person who wrote it used bad grammar.

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Re: Free "upgrade" from paper ballots to touch screen

Postby snoqueen » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:54 am

And we know referencing the DailyKos automatically nullifies all reasonable arguments.

jimoo
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Re: Free "upgrade" from paper ballots to touch screen

Postby jimoo » Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:04 am

Interesting and disconcerting piece.

jonnygothispen
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Re: Free "upgrade" from paper ballots to touch screen

Postby jonnygothispen » Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:22 am

More Wisconsin cities etc. accepting free touch screen machines from Command Central and Dominion... Click the link on this page, and sign in...

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Wisconsin ... 7655100211

bdog
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Re: Free "upgrade" from paper ballots to touch screen

Postby bdog » Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:26 pm

I don't like the touch screen systems.

I'm reminded of one of the Hannibal Lector books where an orderly says something to the effect of only people who don't what they're doing use handcuffs as they're too easy to get out of.

All you have to do is pick the lock.

Henry Vilas
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Re: Free "upgrade" from paper ballots to touch screen

Postby Henry Vilas » Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:41 pm

On that, I totally agree.

The optical scan method used in Madison seems the best. Quick, easy and accurate tabulations, all with paper backup.

jhain
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Re: Free "upgrade" from paper ballots to touch screen

Postby jhain » Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:22 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:The optical scan method used in Madison seems the best. Quick, easy and accurate tabulations, all with paper backup.


Richard Hayes Phillips documents a number of ways that optical scan systems were manipulated in the Ohio 2004 election in his book, "Witness To A Crime." Paper backups don't matter if extra ballots are run through the machines or if physical recounts are blocked by courts, etc.

Henry Vilas
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Re: Free "upgrade" from paper ballots to touch screen

Postby Henry Vilas » Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:52 pm

Given that, as no method is beyond mendacity the optical scan is much preferable to computer voting, with secret software ( aka proprietary information) and absolutely no accountability as to reported results.

jhain
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Re: Free "upgrade" from paper ballots to touch screen

Postby jhain » Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:08 pm

How is it better since both systems can be rigged?

Different techniques are used depending on the type of equipment and whether the vote totals need to go up or down to get the desired result.

In areas of Ohio where Kerry was expected to win, it was easier in most cases to hack optical scan polling places than ones with touch screen.

Phillips' book is fascinating. He also has a (somewhat dry) video on youtube where he describes what he found in his investigation.

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Re: Free "upgrade" from paper ballots to touch screen

Postby Henry Vilas » Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:42 pm

jhain wrote:How is it better since both systems can be rigged?

So your solution is...?

Practical but not utopian, please.

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Re: Free "upgrade" from paper ballots to touch screen

Postby jhain » Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:06 pm

First step would be to count ballots publicly at the polling place as soon as voting ends. Compare the number of ballots to the poll books. Places that do this then remove overvotes by random drawing. In this system optical scan or machine with a voter verified printout works fine.

One of the problems with paper ballots is chain-of-command and tampering off-site. Another is pre-marked ballots that render a voter's votes invalid. Extra ballots can be run that are marked for the candidate of choice. The machines can also shift votes if poll workers run them through the wrong machines at multi-precinct polling places.

I do agree that touch screen are the worst possible option but worry that people put too much faith in optical scan. It is only marginally better in that there is a record. That is helpful only if a re-count is allowed and the ballots weren't tampered with after the fact.


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