Apparently, state Republicans oppose local control

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jjoyce
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Apparently, state Republicans oppose local control

Postby jjoyce » Mon May 24, 2010 1:14 pm

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/ ... 002e0.html

This is what happens when you let the Vicki McKenna show determine your legislative agenda.

Steve Nass says the bike boxes, which received mostly positive response last week with a decent amount of apathy tossed in, are a liberal plot. Worse, they encourage bikes to get in the way of cars when the light turns green.

I guess that means cars might have to yield occasionally. The horror!

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Re: Apparently, state Republicans oppose local control

Postby HeyZeus » Mon May 24, 2010 1:24 pm

I'm happy that Mr. Nass' plate is so clean that he has time for this.

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Re: Apparently, state Republicans oppose local control

Postby Uncle_Leaver » Mon May 24, 2010 1:54 pm

“It’s basically about liberal extremists in Madison who hate cars and think everyone should bike to work,” Nass said. “It is basically making it difficult to use an automobile.”

Difficult? I'm guessing the average motorist can probably figure out how to apply the brake pedal 5 seconds earlier than at a standard intersection. But I can see how that could be a challenge for a podunk dumbass like Nass.

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Re: Apparently, state Republicans oppose local control

Postby eriedasch » Mon May 24, 2010 4:25 pm

I like the bike boxes. They are a great idea.

However, I might question why we need $8K thermoplastic material that needs to be affixed to the pavement with a blowtorch. It does say at the end of the article the city is paying about $3K out of the $16K cost. One would need more details to understand what that means.

What about good 'ol fashioned paint? Seems to work just fine for all other markings on our roads today.

I read another article about the bike boxes that this material has not been tested against WI winters (i.e. low temps, snow, ice, salt, snowplows). I would very much caution them to make sure these are tested before they go ahead and install 10 or 20 more.

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Re: Apparently, state Republicans oppose local control

Postby green union terrace chair » Mon May 24, 2010 4:41 pm

I was and still am skeptical about these bike boxes, but I think it's a good move to give them a limited test run (and I hope I'm proven wrong).

If they turn out to be successful, then expand the program.

eriedasch, I agree with you that the cost seems out of wack. What would this cost if they uses standard road paint? That stuff has flecks of mica or something in it to make it reflective, though perhaps not as much as this NASA-grade material.

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Re: Apparently, state Republicans oppose local control

Postby ArturoBandini » Mon May 24, 2010 5:03 pm

Most painted traffic markings are not "regular paint", as GUTC notes, but I would hope that they would cost less than $8k per equivalent area. The WSJ gives more details into why the red color was chosen:
Other similar boxes in Madison are outlined in white paint, but the box installed Tuesday uses red because it is the exclusive color used in the Netherlands and Amsterdam, traffic engineers said
http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt_and_politics/article_7139503a-62e6-11df-93ae-001cc4c03286.html
That article notes that this type of bike-box traffic designation is already used in other locations - State Street, for instance, with little fanfare. I like the bike boxes, I don't like the fanfare. Also - who cares if we use the same color as the Netherlands? Is this a fashion contest?

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Re: Apparently, state Republicans oppose local control

Postby green union terrace chair » Mon May 24, 2010 5:11 pm

ArturoBandini wrote:http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt_and_politics/article_7139503a-62e6-11df-93ae-001cc4c03286.html
That article notes that this type of bike-box traffic designation is already used in other locations - State Street, for instance, with little fanfare. I like the bike boxes, I don't like the fanfare. Also - who cares if we use the same color as the Netherlands? Is this a fashion contest?

Where? I don't see anything in that article regarding State Street (and haven't seen them on State Street).

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Re: Apparently, state Republicans oppose local control

Postby doppel » Mon May 24, 2010 5:30 pm

I think it's a bad idea, mostly because this seems to create a separate set of traffic laws for Madison. With markings that a driver from outside of Madison would not be aware of. Inherently unsafe by design under current law.
They will be covered whenever it snows, as to be completely unusable. Once again, money pit opens @$32,000 a pop, for something we didn't even need til Mayor Dave visited Amsterdam. We can't afford every pipe dream he has.

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Re: Apparently, state Republicans oppose local control

Postby jman111 » Mon May 24, 2010 5:38 pm

doppel wrote:I think it's a bad idea, mostly because this seems to create a separate set of traffic laws for Madison. With markings that a driver from outside of Madison would not be aware of. Inherently unsafe by design under current law.

That will definitely be a problem. Drivers are generally clueless about bicyclists on the road, and this won't help that.

doppel wrote:They will be covered whenever it snows, as to be completely unusable.

No more so than any other road markings. But red sure would be better than white...

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Re: Apparently, state Republicans oppose local control

Postby ilikebeans » Mon May 24, 2010 5:57 pm

jman111 wrote:That will definitely be a problem. Drivers are generally clueless about bicyclists on the road, and this won't help that.

Really? You think that a big, red section of pavement with an obvious stencil of a bicycle will go over the heads of some people? If there are cyclists in the box, they're just going to get run over by out-of-towners?

But yeah, I'm not sure either why regular pavement paint couldn't be used to save costs. My money's on the thermoplastic material needing to be replaced after one winter of plowing and salt.

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Re: Apparently, state Republicans oppose local control

Postby jjoyce » Mon May 24, 2010 6:14 pm

We had bike boxes before. What's new is that they're painted red so people will notice them. The fanfare is required so people will be aware of them.

If a bored state rep from Whitewater needs to use it as an excuse to tee off on extreme liberals, or whatever he said, then so be it. Nass thinks Madison should maybe be more like Whitewater, except nobody asked him and nobody here voted for him.

He's a stain.

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Re: Apparently, state Republicans oppose local control

Postby jman111 » Mon May 24, 2010 6:15 pm

I wouldn't say they will get run over, but I'm not sure we should be throwing additional traffic controls at people who may already have a difficult time dealing with bikes. I'm afraid it will just increase the anti-bike sentiment. Comments posted at OP's link seem to show this is the case.

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Re: Apparently, state Republicans oppose local control

Postby jjoyce » Mon May 24, 2010 6:20 pm

Sorry: Anti-bike sentiment is plentiful in two locations

1. Talk radio

2. madison.com's comments

It's fomented by tools like Nass, Henck, McKenna. The latter two are paid to rile people up, the former is supposed to be serving the state honorably instead of declaring war on the people who pay his salary.

If you don't think we should be encouraging, rather than discouraging, people to ride their bikes more often, you're in the minority in Madison.

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Re: Apparently, state Republicans oppose local control

Postby jman111 » Mon May 24, 2010 6:26 pm

Perhaps you are misinterpreting my sentiment. I am fully in favor of encouraging bike use. I just think more thought needs to be given to how "non-encouragers" will react to certain efforts. Those who are vehemently opposed to additional accomodations for bikes use efforts like this as ammo.

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Re: Apparently, state Republicans oppose local control

Postby gargantua » Mon May 24, 2010 6:47 pm

jman111 wrote: Those who are vehemently opposed to additional accomodations for bikes use efforts like this as ammo.


To which I say: So what? Idiots will have something to shout among themselves about. Fuck 'em.


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