Mayor throws up a "salt man" argument

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jjoyce
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Mayor throws up a "salt man" argument

Postby jjoyce » Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:33 pm

http://www.madison.com/tct/opinion/colu ... ski/263351

I feel strongly that the city's no-salt policy is a good one, but neither I nor anyone I know blamed this policy for the horrible condition of Madison's streets following the season's first snowfall a few weeks ago. The reasons for our ire are as follows:

- The decision to just wait to plow because of the freezing rain falling after the snow wasn't a good one. This might be a hindsight thing, but a lot of people in town were straight-up snowed in and what we got was hardly a blizzard. The lack of salt wasn't the reason why streets weren't clear of all that wet, sticky snow. We're still seeing the fallout from this decision, which I haven't seen referred to as a bad one by anyone at the city.

- The ass-backward snow emergency plan downtown is more concerned with distributing tickets than getting streets plowed. Weeks after the first snowfall, downtown streets continue to be in horrible condition, a full lane narrower than normal in some cases. Tow the offenders or quit the charade of declaring these "emergencies" as it's clear safe streets is less a goal of this program than ticket revenue. As someone on this board said, you need to work to hold your car steady as it becomes tracked and untracked in the ruts.

- No salt is fine, but what's with not even dumping sand? Recently, the sand has shown up only after days of driving on glare ice. That's execution, not environmental policy.

I seriously think most of us (minus the shriller-than-ever Vicki McKenna) have no problem driving in snowy conditions and are understanding that it's a helluva job the city has to do. But is it unreasonable to expect drivable (I didn't say clear) streets 24 hours after the last flake has fallen?

This is one issue where I don't think our Monroe-Dudgeon-dwelling mayor has any idea how extensive the problem was/is.

depinmad
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Postby depinmad » Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:01 pm

are you saying you don't think we're fucked over in monroe-dudgeon?
believe me the streets are/were plenty shitty around here as well.

jjoyce
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Postby jjoyce » Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:21 pm

Sure, but you can walk to get what you need and the bus services your neighborhood in case you can't get your car out of the driveway.

pulsewidth modulation
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Postby pulsewidth modulation » Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:18 pm

Image

christopher_robin
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Postby christopher_robin » Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:18 pm

I agree with Joyce's take on it. I read the article in question and it seems very calculated. Just admit that the road guys screwed it up--it had nothing to do with salt and everything to do with decision making, timing, and lack of attention to NWS reports.

Straw man.

christopher_robin
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Postby christopher_robin » Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:21 pm

Jeez, I'm out for a few months and ol' Pulsy has devolved at an alarming pace. What the hell is the armed Nazi Jesus all about, exactly...?!

Calm down, Booji Boy.

gargantua
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Postby gargantua » Fri Dec 21, 2007 5:22 pm

christopher_robin wrote:I agree with Joyce's take on it. I read the article in question and it seems very calculated. Just admit that the road guys screwed it up--it had nothing to do with salt and everything to do with decision making, timing, and lack of attention to NWS reports.

Straw man.


Yeah, he's trying to spin his way out of it. Like a car, on one of his residential streets.....

ShaneDog
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Postby ShaneDog » Fri Dec 21, 2007 7:06 pm

christopher_robin wrote:I agree with Joyce's take on it. I read the article in question and it seems very calculated. Just admit that the road guys screwed it up--it had nothing to do with salt and everything to do with decision making, timing, and lack of attention to NWS reports.

Straw man.

I think that's the thing that bothers me the most about government at all levels--the inability to admit to mistakes. I don't care that they made a mistake, I just want them to admit it and to show me what they are going to do differently next time. Denying the lapse of judgment or mistakes made makes me think that they aren't taking the problem seriously enough.

Sure, it's embarrassing and they might get some heat from local media but at I think admitting mistakes builds trust. I'm sure there are complex legal reasons why they can't ever admit to making a single mistake but that's a lame cop out.

If Bush had said something like "sure, we fucked up that whole Hurricane Katrina thing and we understand the magnitude of the mistake but we are going to work with the people to rebuild and to make sure it never happens again." a lot of people would have viewed the massive incompetence in a different light and not been so critical.
Last edited by ShaneDog on Fri Dec 21, 2007 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

forman
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traveling

Postby forman » Mon Mar 10, 2008 1:06 pm

hey guys....
i want to tell you about my dream...i have traveling in many places... i've been in lot of country... i was traveling by feet, by vehicle, but one thing i never did.
my dream is to travel, riding on horse... Morocco can be a good destiny .... o god give me the ability
take a look on this horses: horsesring.com
now.... do you understand?

O.J.
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Re: traveling

Postby O.J. » Mon Mar 10, 2008 1:23 pm

forman wrote:hey guys....
i want to tell you about my dream...i have traveling in many places... i've been in lot of country... i was traveling by feet, by vehicle, but one thing i never did.
my dream is to travel, riding on horse... Morocco can be a good destiny .... o god give me the ability
take a look on this horses: horsesring.com
now.... do you understand?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_RKPGS2vwM

AlphaLiberal
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Postby AlphaLiberal » Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:44 pm

I found the article incoherent and overly abbreviated. Here it is in full:
Template Error: loadfile: body is not a valid handle.
Halted.

Mayor absolved.

Anyway, Joyce makes some interesting points that penetrate my impatience with snow whiners. Can't say I agree as the madison.com servers are on strike and won't tell me what the mayor said.

But there is a Monday morning quarterbacking element to JJ's post. Hindsight is especially clearvoyant when talking about unexpected and unusual weather events, after they happen. Let's not forget, it was a record snowy winter, unlike the Winter that Sunk Bilandic.

But then, I'm kind of sorry to the snow go.

fennel
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Postby fennel » Wed Mar 12, 2008 12:49 am

AlphaLiberal wrote:Let's not forget, it was a record snowy winter, unlike the Winter that Sunk Bilandic.

I think it's better to note that it was winter, and that some winters are more snowy than others. This is not news, so there's no excuse for not being prepared — especially when one's job is to be prepared.

dogmeat
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Postby dogmeat » Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:07 am

What got everything started on the wrong foot was that first big snowfall. A bad decision was made to hold off plowing until later, which resulted in the snowfall mixing with rain and overnight freezing to create massive sheets of ice on all the roads. The weather forecast was right on the money. They were warned what the storm would bring and their plan was inadequate. There are still streets covered with ice. Some of the neighborhood streets I've driven on have at least three inches of ice with a pair of ruts down the center of the road. Driving down those streets is dangerous. If you have a car coming from the opposite direction it's not always east to get out of the ruts. It's like driving down railroad tracks.

The city screwed up plain and simple. We haven't had much snowfall in the past few weeks, but there are still streets that are messed up. Why didn't the city get plows on the streets in the middle of the day when the temperature rose above freezing? There were several warm days that they could have taken advantage of to remove built up ice.

I don't think Mayor Dave can pull his head out of his special projects long enough to manage basic services. I just hope people remember this when his term is up.

Brenda Konkel
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Postby Brenda Konkel » Wed Mar 12, 2008 6:37 am

dogmeat wrote:I don't think Mayor Dave can pull his head out of his special projects long enough to manage basic services. I just hope people remember this when his term is up.

Just curious, what special projects do you think he is working on?

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Postby spanky » Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:21 am

Brenda Konkel wrote:
dogmeat wrote:I don't think Mayor Dave can pull his head out of his special projects long enough to manage basic services. I just hope people remember this when his term is up.

Just curious, what special projects do you think he is working on?


Hmmmm, a closed-door deal that involves transfer of public property to a private hotel developer without a public offering?

For one...


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