Mayor Under Fire

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lifelongmadison
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Mayor Under Fire

Postby lifelongmadison » Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:58 am

http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/column/ ... 15&ntpid=1

What does everyone think? 750 neighbors attending, running out of comment sheets, our own mayor 'snapping' at a constituent... Tough times for Mayor Dave... Looks like he needs a glass of water... Aquafina? or is Davey a Desani guy... you decide...

lifelongmadison
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Postby lifelongmadison » Sun Aug 12, 2007 7:13 am

your private point missed the mark... Pet projects and sidetracking the council while real citizens suffer is the point. Yes.. the council is to blame also. Transit is a very admirable goal, but quality of life issues take priority... Safety first.

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Postby jjoyce » Sun Aug 12, 2007 8:07 am

I was at the meeting too and Smith is being opportunistic.

The mayor needs to react to this in a sensible way, but the "cops not trolleys" schtick is pretty much mainline AM talk radio and exposes the speaker as perhaps not being as interested in seeking a solution as scoring points. And as Noble Wray pointed out, even if money for new cops was added tomorrow, they wouldn't hit the streets until 2009.

Where was that in Smith's column?

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Postby thebookpolice » Sun Aug 12, 2007 8:49 am

The mayor clearly hates this criticism, as 30-year Meadowwood resident Pat Rogeberg learned when she made the same point to him after the meeting in a "cops not trolleys " remark she meant as humourous.

She said Cieslewicz "snapped " at her and told her he didn 't appreciate the juxtaposition.

But Rogeberg thinks it is appropriate.

"You can have all the trolleys and convention centers you want, but if people don 't feel safe in their homes, Madison is not a great place to live, " she said.

...

Rogeberg describes her Madison like this: "We 're not the wealthiest neighborhood, but we pay our taxes, and we vote every time, and we shovel our sidewalks. "

This Madison is crying for help.


Funny, because I'd guess this Rogeberg probably voted for W, twice. Crying for the government to help, huh? How's that crow?

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Postby Bwis53 » Sun Aug 12, 2007 9:13 am

My landlord says he was there. What I thought was funny, was when he started to tell me about the mayor's reaction. He said the look on his face, was one of utter amazement! I wish I'd have been there, just to see if this was feigned, or if he was truly out of touch with his constituents.

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Postby jjoyce » Sun Aug 12, 2007 9:24 am

TheBookPolice wrote:Funny, because I'd guess this Rogeberg probably voted for W, twice. Crying for the government to help, huh? How's that crow?


That's probably true of a lot of people in this part of town. This trolley issue is an important one and I'm not on the mayor's side with it, but do they mean to say that this criminal activity just sprouted up due to neglect of the police department? Where have they been the last 10 years? And where was Cindy Thomas?

The problems in Meadowood have a lot to do with absent social programs meant to fight poverty and work with families. The kids I see around the neighborhood are intensely bored and very, very poor. That is a root cause of criminal activity and it's been ignored by the residents of this area. Now they just want cops making busts. I agree that more cops would make a difference.

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Postby harrissimo » Sun Aug 12, 2007 9:44 am

When Peter Munoz first ran for mayor I supported him. Then I got sweet talked by Cieslewicz and switched my support. I see now that this was a mistake.
Cieslewicz is a suck ass mayor. He is OK when things are going well but things are not going well in Madison. Things suck and they are going to get worst.
Smith was not being opportunistic she was merely writing the truth.

It's Cieslewicz' own god damned fault that people identify him as "Trolley" Dave. He brought this on himself by making his focus on this dumb ass idea instead of taking care of the day to day management of the city. This is what happens. Dave needs to get together with Soglin for some remedial mayor lessons.

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Postby magic moose » Sun Aug 12, 2007 10:17 am

harrissimo wrote:Cieslewicz is a suck ass mayor. He is OK when things are going well but things are not going well in Madison. Things suck and they are going to get worst.


The sky is falling, yes.

Crime needs to be addressed, no doubt, at least the mayor showed up to what he had to have known would not be full of friendly faces (notice that Ms. Falk wasn't there to take it on the chin with him).

The dishonesty was (and is, according to this post) the artificial linking of the trollies and crime. Which doesn't exactly further dialogue.

more crime = more trollies
less crime = less trollies
more trollies = more crime

Looks stupid when you put it like that. Everyone gets emotional. I hate crime, yeah, but try to think straight while you're foaming. How do we deal with crime? Demand some city solutions and time to the problem. Demand that the county help, too.

No, the overriding message is that if we just dropped the (maybe) trolley idea, crime might be solved in Madison. Great way to undermine your own goals, tards.

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Postby white_rabbit » Sun Aug 12, 2007 10:28 am

magic moose wrote:No, the overriding message is that if we just dropped the (maybe) trolley idea, crime might be solved in Madison. Great way to undermine your own goals, tards.


Um, no, the overriding message is perhaps the current city administration's priorities are misdirected.

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Postby thebookpolice » Sun Aug 12, 2007 10:40 am

Forgive me for asking a chicken/egg question, but I haven't lived in Madison proper for the last couple years, and before that, I hadn't lived there long enough to really grasp the political climate in City Hall.

Does Cieslewicz really talk about trolleys and transportation that much of his own initiative, or do his opponents hate that idea (or just hate him) so much that it's all they ever engage him on, therefore forcing him to talk about it all the time?

I could honestly see it going either way, and I'd love a sober (not bilious) response.

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Postby magic moose » Sun Aug 12, 2007 10:53 am

white_rabbit wrote:
magic moose wrote:No, the overriding message is that if we just dropped the (maybe) trolley idea, crime might be solved in Madison. Great way to undermine your own goals, tards.


Um, no, the overriding message is perhaps the current city administration's priorities are misdirected.


OK, that's a valid framing...

...but the gathering that the mayor showed up at was not about transport, so it takes away from the intended point to bring in trollies. Kinda cheapens the debate.

I really don't like defending the mayor so much because I'm not a big trolley fan. But the anti-mayor bashing (where crime-bashing would suffice) can't be real productive especially since the dude just won handily while the world screamed trolley at him from all directions.

The gathering the mayor went to was about what? He chose to show up where?

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Postby Brenda Konkel » Sun Aug 12, 2007 11:03 am

I was wondering how long it would take forons to comment on this. Here's a few random thoughts:

1. The police department has the biggest City of Madison taxpayer paid budget in the City. $50M. 24% of our budget and going up every year.

We get blackmailed into giving them every shiny new toy and piece of technology they want. And yet, they say they need more. How much of our budget should go to the police?

2. At what point, do we say we need to take a look at how they are managing their resources?

But, remember, last time we brought this up when we were trying to advocate for more neighborhood police officers, Noble Wray said it was none of the council's business. Well, I think it is.

3. A side note, we have a city committee called the Public Safety Review Board, when's the last time you heard a peep from them? This is their job.

4. We gave the police a full time data analyst. When I ask them how many crimes are caused by the homeless, don't you think they could tell me. Instead, they told me that they didn't know. I asked them to run a list by "no address" and shelter address of crimes in the last year . . . now they're working on it. They can be pretty damn unhelpful. I'm still waiting to hear more about the two recent sexual assualts that affect my district. I shouldn't have had to contact them, they should have contacted me.

5. The Mayor was silly to seize upon the Chronic Nuisance Ordinance as his key initiative to address their concerns. I doubt he even read it or knows what it will do. The police say that between police calls and building inspection complaints, this will only be used about 10 times a year. That's hardly going to be a panacea for what the west side is upset about.

6. Finally, I keep hearing that the council won't let landlords evict tenants. That's just crazy. Eviction laws are state laws and we can't change them.
Last edited by Brenda Konkel on Sun Aug 12, 2007 11:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby jjoyce » Sun Aug 12, 2007 11:06 am

It's always been clear that Cieslewicz's strengths are on the environment, land use, planning, etc. That's his background. Same for Falk (who I can't imagine was even invited to the Meadowood listening session). What's debatable is whether anyone in the community can claim strengths in fighting poverty and crime. I mean, the way these people stand around blaming each other, you have to wonder if anyone really wants to address the problems or just drag the other guy down.

But the priorities of the white people who run things around this place haven't really included crime until very recently. Tell someone from south Madison or pockets of the north, east and west sides that crime is a new issue and they'll look at you in disbelief. The roots of these problems extend into Soglin's most recent term as mayor. The boomers who always side with him might be impressed by the here-and-there digs, but the truth is that gang violence, drug traffic from Chicago and other big issues were bubbling up in the early '90s. Are there still people who believe cleaning up Broadway/Simpson took care of those issues?

I'm encouraged by the participation of people in my neighborhood, but I know enough about the politics over here to know that a lot of them were at that meeting only in the hopes of seeing someone get a shot in on the mayor. A guy sitting at my table just couldn't shut up about the daily "freak show" he sees outside Toki Middle School, suggesting his problems are more with young kids being young kids than anything else.

I'm most encouraged by a soccer league started by landlords in my neighborhood and talk about community gardens and, possibly, a community center. But let's see if some of these people can be convinced to do anything for their community that requires more than simply getting in their Lincolns and driving the five blocks to demand more cops. I'm not sure that strategy has been known to work if not accompanied by serious grassroots community efforts as well.

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Postby Bwis53 » Sun Aug 12, 2007 11:27 am

I've had to talk to black social workers or people, who live on the south side, to get the story on where a large part of drug-crime-gang stuff came from. At least they give it to me straight, without calling me a racist. And yes, it started some time back. One said, when Cabrini Green (Chicago) got torn down.

Can someone post a link to the propose ordinance? I only read the news article. My landlord is making it sound too simple.

Back to the mayor being surprised about crime. I still wish a full reporting or accounting, beside the MPD Press Release, was available. It seems there's way more going on, that what's reported and that's to the disadvantage of ordinary people.

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Postby Brenda Konkel » Sun Aug 12, 2007 11:43 am

Bwis53 wrote:Can someone post a link to the propose ordinance? I only read the news article. My landlord is making it sound too simple.


We don't know what the current proposal is. Tim Bruer was the main sponsor and he was working on a new version last June and that was the last we heard. Here's the link in legistar. You can see the ordinance and the fact sheet of what the police say the ordinance does, however, what they meant it to do and how it was drafted were kind of two different things.

There are many flaws in the current ordinance that the council asked Tim to fix. We're waiting for a new version. It's hard to comment on the ordinance until we see what was fixed. If you look at the legislative history, you will see some of my comments to the EOC.


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