St. Raphael's

What are the things that puzzle, enrage, delight and tickle you as you go about your life in Madison?
tibor
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 840
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 9:55 am

St. Raphael's

Postby tibor » Sat Mar 24, 2007 4:01 am

This seems to suggest the church could use a loophole to get out of the original commitment they made when they bought the land.

It's not clear from TFA if the real estate lawyer was speaking for the church, or just asked independently. I have no problem with them using the land for church/school, but if they don't, they should give it to the city. Using a loophole to sell it for profit seems unethical, not that that would stop them from doing it.

gargantua
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 6939
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2002 1:30 pm
Location: Madison

Postby gargantua » Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:00 am

Well, the Bishop says he's been praying about this pretty hard, so I think you can rest assured that whatever they do is the will of God.

Nothing to worry about. Amen.

sdh
Senior Member
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 10:38 pm

Another idea...

Postby sdh » Sat Mar 31, 2007 3:01 pm

I suppose this isn't very realistic, but I think it would be really cool if they salvaged the steeple and the walls and converted the building into a sort of outdoor cathedral.

Europe is full of ruins of old churches. They don't tear them down, but leave them up as a connection to the past.

massimo
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 2045
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2005 5:52 pm
Location: Madison

Postby massimo » Sat Mar 31, 2007 3:31 pm

Well, a lot of the church ruins in Europe are left as reminders of the horrors of war or something with a tad more gravity than the horrors of some bum playing with matches.

Bwis53
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 7414
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 9:39 pm
Location: Bay Creek
Contact:

Postby Bwis53 » Sat Mar 31, 2007 3:48 pm

Mmmm,well,if they built around Yost's and the old Civic Center (Capital Theater), why can't they do something similar with Ray's? Didn't Morlino say in passing, he envisions building up that whole part of the block they own.

Henry Vilas
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 23946
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 8:57 pm
Location: Name sez it all
Contact:

Postby Henry Vilas » Sat Mar 31, 2007 4:47 pm

Bwis53 wrote:Mmmm,well,if they built around Yost's and the old Civic Center (Capital Theater), why can't they do something similar with Ray's? Didn't Morlino say in passing, he envisions building up that whole part of the block they own.

That would be very big bucks. After the settlement money the RCC had to pay out in pederasty torts, they probably don't have a lot to spend. Don't know if the parishioners' donations can make up the slack, nor whether or not their credit rating is good enough for a loan.

Darthcrank
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 523
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2003 1:26 pm
Location: bus stop on Gorham

Postby Darthcrank » Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:40 pm

Oh, come on...that would be a swell place for another bank.

I think I agree with the idea that after 40 years, deed stipulations are hardly relevant. The Church or the City getting the money/land?

Does the church need a downtown presence? There are two downtown Catholic location I can think of besides St Ray's, so it wouldn't surprise me if they wanted to sell and use the profits to relocate or bolster their presence elsewhere.

What would the City do with that location?

I like the idea of an open-air cathedral/park. Gay marriages would be brilliant there.

Henry Vilas
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 23946
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 8:57 pm
Location: Name sez it all
Contact:

Postby Henry Vilas » Sun Jun 03, 2007 6:32 pm

Decision near on St. Raphael's.
Bishop Robert Morlino has made a decision on what will become of the historic church, which was destroyed by fire in 2005, and plans to announce it to the public in a ceremony next weekend, WISC-TV reported.
...

According to the press release from the diocese, Morlino will lead a procession through downtown Madison next Sunday and at the end of the event at the St. Raphael's site, he'll announce the location of the new cathedral.


My prediction: a lot of pomp and circumstance, then Morlino will say that his lawyers found a loophole in James Doty's deed restriction on the land. It will be sold for mucho dinero and will help pay off the debts for settling pedophilia civil suits.

So any guesses on how the property will be developed? Could the steeple be incorporated into any new plans?

white_rabbit
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 7487
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2003 11:44 pm

Postby white_rabbit » Sun Jun 03, 2007 6:55 pm

I'm betting on the son of a bishop to announce they will rebuild on St. Ray's site, but after the grand reopening of St. Ray's the diocese will be closing St. Patricks & Holy Redeemer and selling off the land to developers.

@wood
Forum Addict
Posts: 162
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2003 10:36 pm
Contact:

Postby @wood » Mon Jun 04, 2007 12:38 pm

Just please, God, don't let it be a day care!

surroundedbyreality
Senior Member
Posts: 65
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:45 pm
Location: SurroundedByReality
Contact:

Postby surroundedbyreality » Mon Jun 04, 2007 7:25 pm

white_rabbit wrote:I'm betting on the son of a bishop to announce they will rebuild on St. Ray's site, but after the grand reopening of St. Ray's the diocese will be closing St. Patricks & Holy Redeemer and selling off the land to developers.

St Pats and Holy Redeemer are both registered city landmarks. Trying to do anything with them that would mean tearing down the buildings would be a huge fight. Maybe you're suggesting they be remodled? St. Rays for some odd reason isn't a registered landmark of any kind.

white_rabbit
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 7487
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2003 11:44 pm

Postby white_rabbit » Mon Jun 04, 2007 7:39 pm

surroundedbyreality wrote: Maybe you're suggesting they be remodled? St. Rays for some odd reason isn't a registered landmark of any kind.


Perhaps I should have said property rather than land. I didn't mean they would raze the churches, but they could tear down some of the surrounding buildings and develop that property. I'm pretty sure the rectory and parish center buildings at St Pat's are not covered by landmark status. And Holy Redeemer has a lot of parking lot space. The existing churches could be incorporated into a new development, much like they did with the Chancery Building and the Yost's store front.

This just seems like the most likely scenario, keeping the cathedral on the St Ray's property means the diocese doesn't have to become entagled in legal battles to try and keep the land if they don't rebuild. And they will get quite the pretty penny for the property for Holy Redeemer and St Patrick's after they are decomissioned as Catholic crutches.

And I bet the plans for the new cathedral are going to be quite extravagant, including either ramp or underground parking.

snoqueen
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 14162
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 11:42 pm

Postby snoqueen » Mon Jun 04, 2007 9:02 pm

If all that happens, the Madison Catholic community is going to be between a rock and a hard place.

Holy R. is a center for a highly active Spanish-speaking congregation, one of the few growing congregations in Madison. Where will those programs go? Will the people follow the programs, even if they no longer have their own building as a focal point?

And with the huge need for social services, education, and other traditional church programs are people going to prefer to see their contributions funneled into yet another grandiose building? Is there sufficient excitement among laypeople for this undertaking?

Closing and selling church property for real estate development always provokes a lot of resistance, especially when the property has a long history.

Catholicism is not run in a democratic manner (and is not intended to be) so people tend to vote with their contributions, and sometimes enough contributions are withheld to really hurt. This has already been shown when big pedophilia settlements undermine a diocese.

So will the money raised by selling off long-time church properties (along with whatever the insurance payout was after the fire, which hasn't been discussed) be enough to counter resistance among parishoners and a dropoff in contributions if the big new cathedral is received with little enthusiasm? Will they wind up with a big building but no people to fill it?

I'm not Catholic, I'm not part of their community, and I don't know. I'm asking. Morlino is already less than popular among those questioning his connection with American University (or whatever they're calling that military training place now). Catholicism is running low on young priests and nuns, and its recruitment of new members is nowhere near what the pentecostals and fundamentalists are attaining. With leadership like this, it's no wonder.

gargantua
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 6939
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2002 1:30 pm
Location: Madison

Postby gargantua » Tue Jun 05, 2007 9:00 am

I don't know either, but I don't think the issue of contributions will make much of a difference. There are people who would like to see St. Ray's rebuilt, so let's assume their contributions at least stay even. I suspect the same would be true for other parishes in the diocese....how much do people who attend St. Maria Goretti's care if Holy Redeemer and St. Patrick's are closed or put to other uses? My guess is, not enough to curtail contributions. So, the only folks who are likely to react by withholding contributions in any significant way are the two small parishes who might be closed.

It would probably not be enough to offset the gains by selling all or parts of those properties. I have no doubt that the Bishop and those he listens to (if anyone) have considered all this pretty carefully.

And I don't know if he's right or wrong. I'm not at all enamored of his style, but I wouldn't be surprised if he isn't looking pretty smart on this issue 20 years down the road. The diocese is getting to have more churches than clergy, so some consolidation is not unwarranted.

white_rabbit
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 7487
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2003 11:44 pm

Postby white_rabbit » Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:37 am

The good ol' son of a bishop is supposed to make his announcement today, does anyone have the 'scoop'?


Return to “Town Vibe”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest