Health Care Reform

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.
johnfajardohenry
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Re: Health Care Reform

Postby johnfajardohenry » Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:43 am

Huckleby wrote:The key battle in health care is to establish that U.S. citizens have a right to health care.


And from whence does that "right" come?

Mainly from a larger/more powerful/more determined group's ability to force a smaller, less powerful/less determined group to provide it.

This is done via government and the force is via guns or at least via implicit force of guns.

Do I have a right to your TV? Would it be morally acceptable to come to your house with a gun and take it?

What is the difference between taking under cover of government and as an individual?

Your "right" to healthcare exists only because you can take it by force.

Whether this is a good thing or not is another question. Whether it is morally justifiable or not is another question.

You first need to be clear about how you obtain this "right" as you call it.

If you have not done so, read Bastiat's "The Law" which is about this subject.

John Henry

Bland
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Re: Health Care Reform

Postby Bland » Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:13 am

johnfajardohenry wrote:Do I have a right to your TV? Would it be morally acceptable to come to your house with a gun and take it?
No.
johnfajardohenry wrote:What is the difference between taking under cover of government and as an individual?
There is no difference, as long as you're still talking about TVs.

What is immoral is allowing people to get sick and/or die because other people are too selfish to help. There is no shortage of resources to pay for everyone's healthcare, there is only a shortage of basic human compassion, and your attempts to conflate healthcare to televisions is a shining example of such an attitude.

bdog
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Re: Health Care Reform

Postby bdog » Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:33 am

I would have liked to see a Kevorkian clause in this legislation.

You should be able to have yourself killed if you meet certain criteria. No joke.

jonnygothispen
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Re: Health Care Reform

Postby jonnygothispen » Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:26 am

bdog wrote:I would have liked to see a Kevorkian clause in this legislation.

You should be able to have yourself killed if you meet certain criteria. No joke.
That's the Republican plan, due to lack of coverage.

Henry Vilas
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Re: Health Care Reform

Postby Henry Vilas » Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:31 am

The health reform law promises to deliver big changes in the U.S. health care system. But, as with other sweeping pieces of legislation, it can be hard to get the real facts about what it does. And it is all too easy for misinformation about the law to spread.

Take our short, 10-question quiz to test your knowledge of the law, and then find out how you compare to the rest of the country, as represented by the findings of the Kaiser Family Foundation's monthly Health Tracking Poll.


Health Reform Quiz

bdog
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Re: Health Care Reform

Postby bdog » Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:43 am

jonnygothispen wrote:
bdog wrote:I would have liked to see a Kevorkian clause in this legislation.

You should be able to have yourself killed if you meet certain criteria. No joke.
That's the Republican plan, due to lack of coverage.

So the Democrat's plan is to keep people alive, no matter how awful that life is? Gotcha.

Henry Vilas
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Re: Health Care Reform

Postby Henry Vilas » Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:48 am

bdog wrote:So the Democrat's plan is to keep people alive, no matter how awful that life is? Gotcha.

You gotcha wrong. It was your side of the great political divide that wanted to keep Terri Schiavo alive, even though she was brain dead.

bdog
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Re: Health Care Reform

Postby bdog » Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:16 am

Henry Vilas wrote:
bdog wrote:So the Democrat's plan is to keep people alive, no matter how awful that life is? Gotcha.

You gotcha wrong. It was your side of the great political divide that wanted to keep Terri Schiavo alive, even though she was brain dead.

Heh - "my side" huh? How can it be "my side" when I advocate mercy killing?

Face the truth Henry - I have no "side".

But please, continue to protest (too much)

Henry Vilas
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Re: Health Care Reform

Postby Henry Vilas » Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:24 am

bdog wrote:Face the truth Henry - I have no "side".

Saved for posterity.

You must be a moderate, like Meade.

bdog
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Re: Health Care Reform

Postby bdog » Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:30 am

Henry Vilas wrote:
bdog wrote:Face the truth Henry - I have no "side".

Saved for posterity.

You must be a moderate, like Meade.

So Henry - I support gay marriage, abortion and mercy killing.

These are not Republican positions.

And yet I support Scott Walker for his fiscal responsibility.

I didn't say I was a moderate, I said I have no side. Unlike you.

Or do you disagree with some things that your party does?

bdog
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Re: Health Care Reform

Postby bdog » Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:32 am

Henry, go post in the gum thread.

It will make you feel better.

"A man who say no to gum say no to life" - bdog

jonnygothispen
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Re: Health Care Reform

Postby jonnygothispen » Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:40 am

bdog wrote:
And yet I support Scott Walker for his fiscal responsibility.

I didn't say I was a moderate, I said I have no side. Unlike you.

Or do you disagree with some things that your party does?
Um, since Walker increased Wisconsin's debt by $320 million during a slow recovery, while Doyle reduced Wisconsin's debt by $500 million during the peak of the recession, how do you explain your support of Walker's fiscal irresponsibility?

bdog
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Re: Health Care Reform

Postby bdog » Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:42 am

jonnygothispen wrote:
bdog wrote:
And yet I support Scott Walker for his fiscal responsibility.

I didn't say I was a moderate, I said I have no side. Unlike you.

Or do you disagree with some things that your party does?
Um, since Walker increased Wisconsin's debt by $320 million during a slow recovery, while Doyle reduced Wisconsin's debt by $500 million during the peak of the recession, how do you explain your support of Walker's fiscal irresponsibility?

Link please.

O.J.
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Re: Health Care Reform

Postby O.J. » Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:45 am

bdog wrote: I support gay marriage

And yet I support Scott Walker for his fiscal responsibility.


You prioritize his supposed fiscal responsibility over basic human rights?

bdog
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Re: Health Care Reform

Postby bdog » Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:49 am

O.J. wrote:
bdog wrote: I support gay marriage

And yet I support Scott Walker for his fiscal responsibility.


You prioritize his supposed fiscal responsibility over basic human rights?

Nice try OJ.

If you're bankrupt you ain't gonna have much of a chance at improving human rights. It's like they tell you on an airplane about the oxygen masks - if you're with a child, put YOUR mask on first.

All this is of course arguable when applied to Governor Walker's policies. i.e., YMMV.


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