Huckleby wrote:I've challenged you to move beyond the obvious, take a fresh perspective.
No, what you consider a "fresh perspective" is just the same old tired arguments. You've presented nothing new. It's truly incredible that you think you have and that you still seem to believe that before this thread and your enlightened teachings, none of us had ever thought of any of it before.
Prof. Wagstaff wrote:This is not because people are too stubborn to examine them, it's because they are bad arguments. Contemplating something but ultimately rejecting it based on evidence and logic is not closed-minded.
Agreed. You are making the 15th century case.
Prof. Wagstaff wrote:There may be aspects of life and the universe that can not be understood by logic & measurable evidence.
This, for example. Do you honestly believe this position is a "fresh perspective"? It's just the standard old "God-of-the-gaps" argument, which becomes less convincing every single time one of the "gaps" in which God supposedly dwells gets filled in by new scientific research.
But let me ask you another question: If something can not be understood via "measurable evidence" then what possible effect could it have on us? If God does not effect measurable change on the universe, in what meaningful sense does he interact with it at all? Because all of the "miraculous" things he's been credited with over the years are not "unmeasurable", even if we could never hope to achieve exactitude. We can measure relative amounts of locusts and frogs, we can measure relative successes of warring desert tribes, we can measure sea level, we can measure relative healthiness, and we can even measure relative happiness. So how can something interact with or influence something else without leaving any measurable evidence? Sure, it's possible God is intentionally
deceiving us -- first by creating a universe that appears to be explicable via investigation, cause-and-effect, and natural evolution, and then by circumventing his own rules to amaze and/or confound us -- but then why would anyone have reverence for such a cosmic trickster? If God exists, he also created our intellects, after all. So he created us just to deceive us? You might as well pray to Penn & Teller if all you require from a deity is deception and amazement.
Another question: When you say "aspects of life and the universe that can not be understood by logic & measurable evidence" what, besides some sort of God-concept, would you grant such status to? Because that kind of "open-minded" wishy-washiness leaves the door wide open for astrology, homeopathy, feng shui, magnet therapy, and a host of other easily dismissed nonsense. What do you feel is the difference, if any?