"No Guns" signs, not "Help Wanted" signs

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jjoyce
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"No Guns" signs, not "Help Wanted" signs

Postby jjoyce » Mon Nov 14, 2011 12:36 pm

Something caused me to look up the following on the bradycampaign.org website today:

60% of major employers said in a 2005 survey that disgruntled employees had threatened to assault or kill senior managers in the last year.


I can already hear some people respond to that with something like, "I bet that number decreases in workplaces where the boss is carrying!" Apparently, to those folks, everyone feels safter when the threat of gun violence is ever present, or something. But then there's this:

A May 2005 study published in the American Journal of Public Health found that workplaces where guns were permitted were 5 to 7 times more likely to be the site of a workplace homicide compared to workplaces where guns are prohibited.


That's homicide, as in one person intentionally killing another person, not shootings.

That's what is on the minds of the thousands of Wisconsin business owners who are putting up "no guns" signs in the windows of their businesses this month. I'm sure they'd all rather be putting up "Help Wanted" signs, but based on its agenda, the Republican legislature isn't nearly as concerned with that issue.

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Re: "No Guns" signs, not "Help Wanted" signs

Postby Ned Flanders » Mon Nov 14, 2011 12:49 pm

For the tenth time, went through all the conceal-carry/signs/hysteria in Minnesota several years ago.

This too shall pass.

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Re: "No Guns" signs, not "Help Wanted" signs

Postby jjoyce » Mon Nov 14, 2011 1:59 pm

For the umpteenth time, we don't live in Minnesota, land of crappy athletic teams, restrictive beer vending laws and, well, you.

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Re: "No Guns" signs, not "Help Wanted" signs

Postby David Blaska » Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:05 pm

The study only included incidents in North Carolina, which the initial study admitted "may not be applicable to some other areas."

The study also found that there were more homicides in workplaces that had video cameras in place. Should that lead researchers to deduce that the presence of video cameras are a risk factor for homicide?

Study doesn't say if those killed fell to armed employees or intruders. Politifact calls your assertion "half-true" which is another way of saying "half-false."

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Re: "No Guns" signs, not "Help Wanted" signs

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:21 pm

Mr B, got any comments on this study about firearms in the home?

Those persons with guns in the home were at greater risk than those without guns in the home of dying from a homicide in the home.

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Re: "No Guns" signs, not "Help Wanted" signs

Postby David Blaska » Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:27 pm

I suppose the same is true of being cut with knives or electrocuted or bitten by a dog or run over by a car or kicked by a horse. You can decrease the risks of all of them by ...

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Re: "No Guns" signs, not "Help Wanted" signs

Postby wack wack » Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:29 pm

David Blaska wrote:The study also found that there were more homicides in workplaces that had video cameras in place. Should that lead researchers to deduce that the presence of video cameras are a risk factor for homicide?


Yes, of course. Cameras indicate an untrusting employer, which makes for miserable employees, which leads to homicide.

Duh.

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Re: "No Guns" signs, not "Help Wanted" signs

Postby Ned Flanders » Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:31 pm

jjoyce wrote:For the umpteenth time, we don't live in Minnesota, land of crappy athletic teams, restrictive beer vending laws and, well, you.


Yeah. You wouldn't want to learn from the real-world experiences of a neighboring state.

That would take away all of your "sky is falling" fun.

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Re: "No Guns" signs, not "Help Wanted" signs

Postby rabble » Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:34 pm

David Blaska wrote:/]Politifact calls[/url] your assertion "half-true" which is another way of saying "half-false."

Actually Dave, in this case half-true is another way of saying "generally accurate."

Nothing in the report was false. They omitted some details that I agree are important, just like you omitted the term "generally accurate" when you quoted it.

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Re: "No Guns" signs, not "Help Wanted" signs

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:43 pm

David Blaska wrote:I suppose the same is true of being cut with knives or electrocuted or bitten by a dog or run over by a car or kicked by a horse. You can decrease the risks of all of them by ...

Reductio ad absurdum.

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Re: "No Guns" signs, not "Help Wanted" signs

Postby David Blaska » Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:48 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:
David Blaska wrote:I suppose the same is true of being cut with knives or electrocuted or bitten by a dog or run over by a car or kicked by a horse. You can decrease the risks of all of them by ...

Reductio ad absurdum.


About what your post deserves. You are not going to ban guns, Henry. So why don't you just move on.

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Re: "No Guns" signs, not "Help Wanted" signs

Postby fisticuffs » Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:51 pm

You are not going to ban guns, Henry. So why don't you just move on.


No one is suggesting that we ban guns dipshit.

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Re: "No Guns" signs, not "Help Wanted" signs

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:53 pm

David Blaska wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:
David Blaska wrote:I suppose the same is true of being cut with knives or electrocuted or bitten by a dog or run over by a car or kicked by a horse. You can decrease the risks of all of them by ...

Reductio ad absurdum.


About what your post deserves. You are not going to ban guns, Henry. So why don't you just move on.

And now the straw man.

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Re: "No Guns" signs, not "Help Wanted" signs

Postby David Blaska » Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:56 pm

fisticuffs wrote:
You are not going to ban guns, Henry. So why don't you just move on.


No one is suggesting that we ban guns dipshit.


What you meant to write, mr. Fisticuffs, is

No one is suggesting that we ban guns, dipshit.


You forgot the comma after the word "guns." Otherwise, your comment makes no sense. It's like "eats shoots and leaves." The comma indicates that you are calling me a name rather than conjuring something that is not known to exist, unless you are trying to relate that "guns dipshit" is something like guacamole dip(?)
Last edited by David Blaska on Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "No Guns" signs, not "Help Wanted" signs

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:57 pm

Did you guys know that 67% of all scientific studies are quoted inappropriately? And another 72% are utilized inaccurately? I'm pretty sure both those statements are at least 56% true.

Seriously, though, not sure it's reasonable to extrapolate workplace homicide rates from NC to WI given another statistic, which is that nearly half of all workplace homicides occur in the South, at least as of 2003, according to this study.
The South ranked highest in terms of both overall property crime rates and violent crime rates... the Midwest consistently ranked lowest of all three regions in violent crimes and property crimes.


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