Unanswered questions posed to ilikebeans

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David Blaska
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Unanswered questions posed to ilikebeans

Postby David Blaska » Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:59 pm

A Foron who hides behind the moniker "ilikebeans" pretends that I avoid his questions. He needs to first make his case that Voter I.D. depresses voter turnout. Because the empirical data shows different:

Hans Von Spakovsky wrote:Election data in Georgia demonstrate that concern about a negative effect on the Democratic or minority vote is baseless. Turnout there increased more dramatically in 2008 — the first presidential election held after the state’s photo-ID law went into effect — than it did in states without photo ID. Georgia had a record turnout in 2008, the largest in its history — nearly 4 million voters. And Democratic turnout was up an astonishing 6.1 percentage points from the 2004 election, the fourth-largest increase of any state.

For those who might reply that this was because Barack Obama was on the ballot, think again. Mississippi, with an equally large black population and no voter ID, had its Democratic turnout increase by only 2.35 percentage points.

Numerous studies — including those by the Heritage Foun­dation, the University of Missouri, the University of Delaware, and the University of Nebraska–Lincoln — have looked at data from many states and several elections and concluded that voter ID does not depress turnout. In fact, the Delaware/Nebraska study said that “concerns about voter-identification laws affecting turnout are much ado about nothing.”

The Indiana and Georgia voter-ID laws were upheld by state and federal courts. In the Georgia case, the federal court pointed out that after two years of litigation, none of the plaintiffs, including the NAACP, could produce a single otherwise eligible voter who did not have a photo ID or could not easily obtain one. That failure was “particularly acute,” the court wrote, “in light of the Plaintiffs’ contention that a large number of Georgia voters lack acceptable photo ID.” Similarly, in the Indiana case, the federal court noted that “despite apocalyptic assertions of wholesale voter disen­franchisement, Plaintiffs have produced not a single piece of evidence of any identifiable registered voter who would be prevented from voting.”Hans Von Spakovsky in the 8/29/11 National Review

O.J.
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Re: Unanswered questions posed to ilikebeans

Postby O.J. » Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:16 pm

By comparing Georgia’s turnout with turnout in other similar states that do not have voter ID requirements, it is possible to control for other factors that influence turnout. Of course, the comparison will never be perfect. But it can provide valuable context.

Consider nearby North Carolina, which does not yet have a voter ID requirement on the books (Governor Bev Perdue recently vetoed a proposed voter ID bill). In 2006, just 28.8% of registered black voters turned out; in 2010, turnout among black voters was 40.4%. Thus, relative to 2006 black turnout, North Carolina’s level of black turnout in 2010 represented a 40.2% increase. Compare those turnout figures with Georgia’s. In 2006, when there was no voter ID requirement, 42.9% of registered black voters turned out; in 2010, after the state’s restrictive ID requirement became law, turnout was 50.4%. So relative to its 2006 black turnout, Georgia’s level of black turnout in 2010 constituted just a 17.5% increase.

In other words, the black turnout jump in North Carolina, a state without voter ID laws, was more than twice the size of the jump in Georgia, a state with stringent voter ID laws. When appropriately contextualized, Georgia’s voter ID law no longer looks quite so harmless.



Read more: http://www.bluenc.com/voter-id-may-fact ... z1XrErYWPV

jonnygothispen
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Re: Unanswered questions posed to ilikebeans

Postby jonnygothispen » Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:17 pm

Of course, if you ignore the fact that making it more difficult to vote means less people will vote, then that's a possibility. Just a law of nature valid in every scenario. How many more would've voted in each perspective state w/o the ID requirement?

But forget all of that. Walker's firing of a State employee for trying to inform the public that voter ID is free at the DMV makes it obvious that this IS about voter suppression.

Taking the Segway isn't always the worst option: http://www.addictinginfo.org/2011/09/09 ... -free-ids/

Oshkosh, by gosh! http://www.thenorthwestern.com/article/ ... y=nav|head
Expecting a citizen to be fully aware of all of their options information beforehand is unreasonable at best, especially for brand new provisions. At worse, to expressly withhold that information is voter suppression.

DCB
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Re: Unanswered questions posed to ilikebeans

Postby DCB » Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:29 pm

David Blaska wrote:A Foron who hides behind the moniker "ilikebeans" pretends that I avoid his questions. He needs to first make his case that Voter I.D. depresses voter turnout. Because the empirical data shows different:

Hans Von Spakovsky wrote:Election data in Georgia demonstrate that concern about a negative effect on the Democratic or minority vote is baseless.

You mean this Von Spakovsky?

The guy who pretends he has a fictitious grand jury document?

You mean this guy?
"Can I ask you something?" Franken interjected. "Do you know how much Mississippi grew in terms of black population during those years versus Georgia?"

"I don't," said von Spakovsky.

....

"We know that there are individuals who tried -- and failed -- to vote. Real people," said Levitt, who cited examples of nuns in South Bend, Indiana and a veteran.


Rock solid research there, Einstein.

David Blaska
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Re: Unanswered questions posed to ilikebeans

Postby David Blaska » Tue Sep 13, 2011 2:13 pm

You are citing Al Franken?
AlFranken.jpg
AlFranken.jpg (11.88 KiB) Viewed 861 times

TheBookPolice
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Re: Unanswered questions posed to ilikebeans

Postby TheBookPolice » Tue Sep 13, 2011 2:25 pm

You admire Ronald Reagan?

Image

Move on.

acereraser
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Re: Unanswered questions posed to ilikebeans

Postby acereraser » Tue Sep 13, 2011 2:26 pm

David Blaska wrote:You are citing Al Franken?
Image


If you didn't want debate, why did you start the thread? Why join a discussion forum in the first place?

David Blaska
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Re: Unanswered questions posed to ilikebeans

Postby David Blaska » Tue Sep 13, 2011 2:35 pm

Reagan stamp 021011.jpg
Reagan stamp 021011.jpg (12.33 KiB) Viewed 836 times
Who doesn't want a debate? Or are you referring to ilikebeans, who has made himself scarce? Let's face it, Al Franken is no Ronald Reagan.

Henry Vilas
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Re: Unanswered questions posed to ilikebeans

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Sep 13, 2011 2:38 pm

So what? Even Nixon (and Elvis) have stamps.

jonnygothispen
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Re: Unanswered questions posed to ilikebeans

Postby jonnygothispen » Tue Sep 13, 2011 2:44 pm

David Blaska wrote:
Reagan stamp 021011.jpg
Who doesn't want a debate? Or are you referring to ilikebeans, who has made himself scarce? Let's face it, Al Franken is no Ronald Reagan.
True. Franken hasn't raised taxes 13 times like Reagan did with a GOP controlled Senate for 6 years. Nor does Franken depend on his wife's astrologer before making public appearances (See Donald Regan, RWR's chief of staff). Franken hasn't illegally armed dictatorships against the people, dictators who killed over a million civilians during the 80s. Nor did he arm the Ayatollah and Saddam at the same time like Reagan did. Good point, Dave.

David Blaska
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Re: Unanswered questions posed to ilikebeans

Postby David Blaska » Tue Sep 13, 2011 2:57 pm

Thread has been hijacked. Send help. Where is Mr. IlikeBeans?

jonnygothispen
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Re: Unanswered questions posed to ilikebeans

Postby jonnygothispen » Tue Sep 13, 2011 2:58 pm

Hijacked by D. B. Blooper.

DCB
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Re: Unanswered questions posed to ilikebeans

Postby DCB » Tue Sep 13, 2011 3:55 pm

David Blaska wrote:Thread has been hijacked. Send help.

Indeed, it was hijacked by a silly photo that you posted.

The point of the exchange with Franken, as well O.J.'s thoughtful post, is that your authoritative source is lacking in academic rigor, if not intellectually dishonest.

What else ya got?

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Re: Unanswered questions posed to ilikebeans

Postby TAsunder » Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:14 pm

I find the question Blaska proposed confusing; I would think that the question of evidence is not material to this issue since the bill was passed to combat significant fraud which is only hypothetical in nature and itself has no evidence supporting its existence. Given that the bill is costing a decent chunk of change and certainly at least causing some inconvenience, shouldn't the onus be on the person supporting the bill to provide some sort of evidence to justify the bill?

I also want to add that I have minimal faith that even if there is fraud this will actually help prevent it. Poll workers are not experts at ID forensics and have almost zero concern with privacy, security, and proper voting booth conduct. Now we are putting these people in charge of validating an ID?

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Re: Unanswered questions posed to ilikebeans

Postby HamsterArmageddon » Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:16 pm

ilikebeans = emily mills

I'm surprised you didn't recognize her combative, verbose, and capricious style.

This is a prog/left maxim:

We are absolutely correct, you have to prove yourself to us. We never have to prove anything. We only question. How dare you question us. Didn't you know such and such and so forth and so forth?

They don't know how to play their own game because in all reality they never had the answers. They thought they could simply out status you. Lazy.


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