Unanswered questions posed to David Blaska

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jman111
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Re: Unanswered questions posed to David Blaska

Postby jman111 » Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:49 am

David Blaska essentially wrote:Yeah, I know I fabricate "facts" and have no intention of citing legitimate support for them, but "your side" sucks.

Well done, beans.

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Re: Unanswered questions posed to David Blaska

Postby David Blaska » Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:29 am

ipassbeans wrote:Yeah, I know I fabricate "facts" like "Voter I.D. prevents black people and the LGBT community from voting." I have no intention of citing legitimate support for them (meaning support I can agree with), but your side" sucks.

Well done, beans.

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Re: Unanswered questions posed to David Blaska

Postby TAsunder » Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:44 am

So we have a system that is allowing felons to exert their fundamental human right to vote, and that is a bad thing?


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Re: Unanswered questions posed to David Blaska

Postby ilikebeans » Fri Jul 29, 2011 1:33 pm

David Blaska wrote:Mr. Beans, your side is the one alleging that Voter I.D. reduces voter participation but you have scant evidence for it.

Mr. Blaska,

True, it's been my contention that voter turnout is depressed among certain populations after photo ID laws go into effect. Also true that the Columbia study's authors say that they can't prove or disprove that hypothesis.

However, as I pointed out, other studies do support it. For instance, as mentioned in my previous post, over the same time period "the black turnout jump in North Carolina, a state without voter ID laws, was more than twice the size of the jump in Georgia, a state with stringent voter ID laws."

Also, you conveniently continue to ignore the Brown University study (updated link) I mentioned on two different occasions. Here, let me make it a third time by quoting the abstract:

A new report released by Brown University’s American Communities Project shows that requiring voters to present identification at the polls leads to lower levels of political participation. The research also suggests that voter I.D. policies discourage legal immigrants from becoming citizens. The authors conclude that voter I.D. requirements have a significant political impact, particularly on the Hispanic vote.

Your claim that voting activity increases due to the passage of voter ID laws has yet to have any credible backing whatsoever. If you find additional sources, please post them.

David Blaska wrote:The Supreme Court has upheld Voter I.D. And it is the law in Wisconsin.

So this means we cannot continue to question whether the law is good and just? A bad law has never been passed and upheld by the courts?

Now, I'd like to bump the most recent claim you made:

David Blaska wrote:I will grant you one point, Mr. Beans: Voter I.D. does reduce turnout among fraudulent voters.

Yeeaaahhh... we'll need some proof for this one.

See, Mr. Blaska, this is the point of it all. If we're going to rush through ALEC-coordinated legislation by a hyper-right-wing state government that's made it a priority before recall elections (hm, wonder why?) maybe, just maybe we should make sure that:

a) It doesn't disenfranchise legitimate voters, and,
b) It has the desired positive effect, i.e., it prevents voter fraud.

Let's put aside for the moment whether preventing the prosecution of 11 charges of voter fraud in 2010, out of 2.96 million votes cast statewide (0.00037%) is worth the estimated $2.3 million annually during a during a time when "We are broke in this state. We have been broke for years."

Please present your proof from other states that voter photo ID laws have, in fact, prevented fraud at the ballot box.

Also, Henry would like to know how this law will prevent felons from voting, who (I assume) might possess valid photo IDs.

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Re: Unanswered questions posed to David Blaska

Postby Marvell » Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:10 pm

David Blaska wrote:An in-depth survey by former Federal Elections Commission member Hans Van Spakovsky reports that "record turnout in Georgia in the 2008 presidential primary election—over 2 million voters, more than twice as much as in 2004 when the voter photo ID law was not in effect (the law was first applied to local elections in 2007). The number of African–Americans voting in the 2008 primary also doubled from 2004."


Careful you don't cut yourself with Occam's Razor, David.

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Re: Unanswered questions posed to David Blaska

Postby ilikebeans » Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:14 am

Bump for Mr. Blaska:

ilikebeans wrote:Please present your proof from other states that voter photo ID laws have, in fact, prevented fraud at the ballot box.

Also, Henry would like to know how this law will prevent felons from voting, who (I assume) might possess valid photo IDs.

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Re: Unanswered questions posed to David Blaska

Postby David Blaska » Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:23 am

ilikebeans wrote:Bump for Mr. Blaska:

ilikebeans wrote:Please present your proof from other states that voter photo ID laws have, in fact, prevented fraud at the ballot box.

Also, Henry would like to know how this law will prevent felons from voting, who (I assume) might possess valid photo IDs.

Q. #1: How many fires did the Fire Department prevent last year?
Q. #2: Placing a mark on drivers licenses denoting felon is under consideration.

As to the # of prosecutions: proving an intent and getting a conviction is a difficult and time-consuming proposition. Prevention is much more cost-effective.

Now, all your sky-is-falling rhetoric may play well at the rallies but in the light of day the voters made a calm and rational decision and elected leaders who implemented their wishes. That, my furry friends, is what democracy looketh like!

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Re: Unanswered questions posed to David Blaska

Postby fisticuffs » Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:25 am

Now, all your sky-is-falling rhetoric may play well at the rallies but in the light of day the voters made a knee-jerk ill informed decision and elected leaders who went completely batshiat and will soon be throw out of office.

It's gonna be a rough August DBag

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Re: Unanswered questions posed to David Blaska

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:00 am

David Blaska wrote: Placing a mark on drivers licenses denoting felon is under consideration.

That's a backhanded way of admitting the new Voter ID law does nothing to prevent illegal voting by felons (of which you had previously claimed).

And I don't know how that can be accomplished. Will felons on probation/parole have to get a new driver's license? How will that be enforced? And after they get "off paper" will they have to then get an unmarked license (at no cost, so as not to violate the 24th Amendment)?

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Re: Unanswered questions posed to David Blaska

Postby ilikebeans » Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:07 am

David Blaska wrote:Q. #1: How many fires did the Fire Department prevent last year?

Interesting analogy, considering the fire department's main mission is typically fighting existing fires instead of preventing them.

Perhaps you meant to type "building inspectors enforcing fire codes" instead. (Oo, there's that nasty government regulation again!) Ok, let's assume that in previous years we didn't have building inspectors. Should be a simple matter of comparing pre-inspector fires to post-inspector fires, no?

By the same token, I would assume it's an easy study to see how many convictions for voter fraud occurred pre-photo-ID vs. after in states that passed photo ID laws. Have at it!

David Blaska wrote:Q. #2: Placing a mark on drivers licenses denoting felon is under consideration.

Very interesting. I hadn't heard that. Do you have a source for it?

And pray tell, what if the felon presents a passport, student ID, or other valid photo ID?

As to the # of prosecutions: proving an intent and getting a conviction is a difficult and time-consuming proposition. Prevention is much more cost-effective.

[citation needed]

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Re: Unanswered questions posed to David Blaska

Postby wack wack » Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:08 am

David Blaska wrote:Now, all your sky-is-falling rhetoric may play well at the rallies but in the light of day the voters made a calm and rational decision and elected leaders who implemented their wishes. That, my furry friends, is what democracy looketh like!


Despite your continued ignorance on this point, the fact remains that the voters got something completely different from what they voted for. Candidates lied, liars got elected.

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Re: Unanswered questions posed to David Blaska

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:30 am

wack wack wrote:Despite your continued ignorance on this point, the fact remains that the voters got something completely different from what they voted for. Candidates lied, liars got elected.

This article from the Cap Times addresses that very point.

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Re: Unanswered questions posed to David Blaska

Postby TAsunder » Mon Aug 01, 2011 1:02 pm

I'm still confused... is the only goal to prevent felons from voting? If so, then this law is even more dubious than I thought.

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Re: Unanswered questions posed to David Blaska

Postby David Blaska » Mon Aug 01, 2011 1:59 pm

Yes, by using loaded terms like "puppet masters" that PROVES that every Republican elected across the nation is nothing more than a Stepford wife, a Manchurian candidate. The people have been duped. DUPED, I say! That can be the only explanation.


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