Tiggs wrote:Forced collecting/confiscation of money from "the masses" IS socialism.Huckleby wrote:You say the bill is socialized medicine. The left wing says it was a corporate give-away.
Well, by this definition the collection of taxes is socialism.
And you know what, I accept your definition. We have LOTS of socialism in our government and society. Social Security. Public Schools. FEMA. Police & Fire.
We need more socialism in health care, free enterprise alone is hopeless in this arena.
Tiggs wrote:The Repubicans did a good job of drumming-up fear. The Democrats did not have 60 votes for reform in the Senate.
So even when the democrats themselves didn't buy into obama/pelosi care, it's still the republicans fault?
85% of Democrats bought into health reform. But even that is not enough when 0% of Republicans are behind it.
I blame the Republicans for their dishonest representation of the health care bill. But I certainly don't blame them for opposing it. I understand why the health care bill is anethma to them, it institutionalizes a target of of universal health care with the Feds playing a key role.
The issue of universal health care has to be decided before the Dems and Republicans can cooperate in a meaningful way.
The lost souls in this battle are the leftists who don't get what is at stake.
Tiggs wrote:You can't get a really good health care bill with just Democrats
Why not? they had a filibuster proof majority?
Although the Republicans are wrong to oppose universal health care, they have many good ideas otherwise. The Dems want to remove the Tax deduction for Health Saving Accounts, that is dumb. The House Dems wanted to pay for health care expansion with just a tax on the wealthy, which is extremely unwise. Tort reform is needed. The Republicans are more willing to tax health care benefits, which is a painful but necessary step to expanding coverage and moving our country off of employer-based health care. The Republicans are certainly needed to get a grip on Medicare spending, one party can't possibly take those difficult votes.
Tiggs wrote: Could it be that most Americans are satisfied with their healthcare?
Yes, very true. Which is why the Dems did a good job of building upon the existing system. The health care bill is paradoxical. IT is both revolutionary (in expanding coveraging, creating insurance exchanges) and deeply conservative in solidifying the role and viability of private insurance.
A lot of people are going to be screwed in the coming years if this reform tanks. Employers are going to increasingly drop insurance. The individual market will be too expensive for people who lose coverage at work.