More evidence Apple is the new Microsoft

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Mean Scenester
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More evidence Apple is the new Microsoft

Postby Mean Scenester » Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:13 pm

So Amazon recently launched an store for Android apps aptly named the "Amazon Appstore."

The ink on the press release was barely dry before Apple filed suit against using the name, which they apparently claim as their intellectual property.

Seriously?

I think Steve Jobs's transplant surgeon fucked up. It appears he now has a pussy where his liver used to be.

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Re: More evidence Apple is the new Microsoft

Postby green union terrace chair » Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:41 pm

Did you ever use the terms "appstore" or "app store" before Apple introduced their App Store?

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Re: More evidence Apple is the new Microsoft

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:38 pm

green union terrace chair wrote:Did you ever use the terms "appstore" or "app store" before Apple introduced their App Store?
Nope, but I did use the terms "app" (which dates from the mid-'80s) and "store" (which dates from the 13th century or so) independently before Apple ever thought to combine them.

Someone was the first to combine "grocery" with "store" too. Should they have a monopoly on the usage since they did it first, or can we all just agree that everyday words can be combined in obvious ways without necessitating copyrights and trademarks?

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Re: More evidence Apple is the new Microsoft

Postby green union terrace chair » Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:50 pm

Prof. Wagstaff wrote:
green union terrace chair wrote:Did you ever use the terms "appstore" or "app store" before Apple introduced their App Store?
Nope, but I did use the terms "app" (which dates from the mid-'80s) and "store" (which dates from the 13th century or so) independently before Apple ever thought to combine them.

Someone was the first to combine "grocery" with "store" too. Should they have a monopoly on the usage since they did it first, or can we all just agree that everyday words can be combined in obvious ways without necessitating copyrights and trademarks?

If you don't like it, take it up with the US Patent and Trademark Office. You can even trademark a "dynamic ribbon device" these days (look at a Coke label).

Here's something else to argue about ... who's the rightful owner of the "Dropbox" moniker?

http://www.dropbox.com/
http://www.dropboxinc.com/

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Re: More evidence Apple is the new Microsoft

Postby TheBookPolice » Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:55 pm

The concept of genericized trademarks fascinates me, and in my totally lay opinion, "App Store" as used by Apple is nowhere near this line:

A trademark is said to be genericized when it began as distinctive but has changed in meaning to become generic. A trademark typically becomes "genericized" when the products or services with which it is associated have acquired substantial market dominance or mind share such that the primary meaning of the genericized trademark becomes the product or service itself rather than an indication of source for the product or service to such an extent that the public thinks the trademark is the generic name of the product or service.

(Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genericized_trademark)

If someone says "App Store," the response is either "Apple" or "I don't know." Not "a place where one procures applications."

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Re: More evidence Apple is the new Microsoft

Postby Average Joe » Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:07 pm

(what book said). Here's a test, go up to any stranger on the street and ask them what they think of when you say, "There's an app for that".

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Re: More evidence Apple is the new Microsoft

Postby boston_jeff » Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:47 pm

Hey look I can buy Apps for my Android at the Market:
https://market.android.com/?gclid=CMGXo ... KgodyT-rcg

Look, I love (some) Apple products too, but to pretend that they aren't a bunch of proprietary d-bags is akin to sticking your head in the sand.

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Re: More evidence Apple is the new Microsoft

Postby Stebben84 » Thu Mar 24, 2011 9:14 pm

This reminds me of something that happened in the artworld. Jeff Koons tried to trademark balloon animals because of some sculptures he made:

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-enter ... 95544.html

Like Wagstaff said:

Prof. Wagstaff wrote:Nope, but I did use the terms "app" (which dates from the mid-'80s) and "store" (which dates from the 13th century or so) independently before Apple ever thought to combine them.

Someone was the first to combine "grocery" with "store" too. Should they have a monopoly on the usage since they did it first, or can we all just agree that everyday words can be combined in obvious ways without necessitating copyrights and trademarks?


I find our copyright system all fuckst up now. I do believe people should be given rights to something they invented or conceived, but to try and copyright a term or idea that has already been in the public domain for so long is just silly.

I really don't think Apple is going to lose out from other people using the term.

I personally think it starts to set a bad precedent for people abusing the system and copyrighting things that have been in existence for a long time.

For fuck sake, the happy birthday song is copyrighted. That's just stupid and it's an act of greed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Birthday_to_You

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Re: More evidence Apple is the new Microsoft

Postby TheBookPolice » Thu Mar 24, 2011 11:13 pm

boston_jeff wrote:Hey look I can buy Apps for my Android at the Market

And what that retail front is not called? An App Store.

Don't hate the player, hate the game. Stebben's at least taking this from the right angle.

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Re: More evidence Apple is the new Microsoft

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:13 am

TheBookPolice wrote:If someone says "App Store," the response is either "Apple" or "I don't know." Not "a place where one procures applications."

As someone who can honestly remember using the term "app" for computer applications as early as the late '80s, and who also has never owned or used an Apple or any kind of app-using phone, I gotta respectfully disagree. I know what an "appstore" is because I'm not a dummy, not because I'm loyal to any particular brand or product.

Here's the thing about genericized terms: They are all brand names for existing products. Kleenex = facial tissue. Xerox = photocopy. Band-Aid = adhesive bandage.

I can see why those companies don't want their brand names used generically. But "appstore" is the equivalent of "facial tissue", not "Kleenex". There's simply no brand name to conserve, unless the argument is that "appstore" is somehow different from "app store".

(Oh, and since Apple has already paid millions to The Beatles for appropriating the name Apple, their bitching about people supposedly horning in on what they think should be a "protected" name comes off as more than a little asinine, but I know that legally it's irrelevant.)

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Re: More evidence Apple is the new Microsoft

Postby TheBookPolice » Fri Mar 25, 2011 8:39 am

Prof. Wagstaff wrote:
TheBookPolice wrote:If someone says "App Store," the response is either "Apple" or "I don't know." Not "a place where one procures applications."

As someone who can honestly remember using the term "app" for computer applications as early as the late '80s, and who also has never owned or used an Apple or any kind of app-using phone, I gotta respectfully disagree. I know what an "appstore" is because I'm not a dummy, not because I'm loyal to any particular brand or product.

I'm surprised that you appear to feel you're representative of the general American populace in this respect.

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Re: More evidence Apple is the new Microsoft

Postby boston_jeff » Fri Mar 25, 2011 8:46 am

Exactly. You can use FB Apps too. App and Store are terms that we should all be able to use. I don't hate Apple, I just find people who pat themselves on the back for loving Apple to be a bit much. Its almost as annoying as patting oneself on the back for driving a Prius. Steve Jobs is not the Dalai Lama, in fact he's kind of a dick. Why are you guys defending him? Its like some creepy religion for you people. I love my Ipods, I really do, but I don't understand the obsessive brand loyalty. They are a corporation, trying to make money--not the Sierra Club or MENSA.

The content restrictions on Apple devices alone are not exactly friendly nor representative of what most Apple users want from other corporations. The lawsuits are just more grist for the mill IMO. But when its Steve Jobs, its OK. Overcontrolling manipulative corporate demagogues anger us in other industries (and of course Bill Gates has been summarily demonized by the Apple geek contingent), but its OK because you love your Iphone. I fail to see why this very corporate action is OK with you all... unless you happen to be pro-business conservative types?

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Re: More evidence Apple is the new Microsoft

Postby fisticuffs » Fri Mar 25, 2011 8:49 am

I don't think the problem is with the words "App Store" I think it's that it pertains to an app store for mobile apps. Google had the sense to call there's Android Market. Blackberry has "App World". Windows Phone 7 has Windows Marketplace. Nokia has Ovi Store (but no one uses that shit). None of those existed before the iPhone and the App Store. Why can't the marketing team at Amazon come up with something unique? Frivolous copyright lawsuits are annoying but you can't say Apple is the only one throwing them around. They get sued by all these other guys every day. Apple brought mobile apps to the mainstream. Every other platform right now is entirely derivative of the platform they built. The least they can do is come up with their own marketing terms for it.

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Re: More evidence Apple is the new Microsoft

Postby fisticuffs » Fri Mar 25, 2011 8:50 am


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Re: More evidence Apple is the new Microsoft

Postby TheBookPolice » Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:08 am

Jeff, you do realize this isn't an attack on the English language. The words are still free to use for you and me. It's the marketing use of the combination of the words App and Store to sell mobile applications.

You wanna see what truly egregious trademark protection looks like?

Monster.

If you opened a restaurant that sold nothing but appetizers and wanted to call it The App Store, you'd probably win if Apple sued you. It worked for The Chocolate Library. It's about competition in the same class of retail.

I'm not even going to get into your presumption that anyone here is treating Apple like a religion, or defending Steve Jobs in any specific or meaningful sense. That's the typical shot at anyone who doesn't participate in Apple-bashing.


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