Let The Hi-Def Format War Begin! (Blu-ray Disc vs. HD-DVD)

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Postby paulie » Tue Jan 09, 2007 3:38 pm

TheBookPolice wrote:Uh-oh! The 800-lb gorilla in the room has weighed in, and it doesn't look good for hybrid proponents!

The adult film industry doesn't think hybrid tech will end the war.

Sure, companies like Pioneer and others who have a stake in one format or the other aren't going to be pleased with LG's new baby. But when Vivid and the rest of the Boner Patrol say that they're displeased with all sides in the new format war, someone's gotta pay attention.

This ain't over, not by a damn sight.


you're kidding right?

though, it does make one wonder how much influence the 'invisible hand of the porn industry' actually has with the media companies.

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Postby thebookpolice » Tue Jan 09, 2007 4:10 pm

SO not kidding.

Do a Google search for "betamax VHS adult" and see what comes up. It's not my idea that porn money is the money that does a lot of the talking in these situations. They're not going to side with hybrids. If they have to, they're going to pick one. That one is probably going to win.

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Postby Slick Willy » Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:20 am

A new article from FORTUNE Magazine was just posted today on CNNMoney.com regarding the hi-def drama.

http://money.cnn.com/2006/07/07/technology/gadgets.fortune/index.htm?cnn=yes

It has some detailed, up-to-date info.

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Postby Beer Moon » Fri Jan 12, 2007 11:52 am

That article is bullshit. He says Blazing Saddles is not funny. Then he picks blu-ray for no reason. These players have been around for months, and he makes NO MENTION of the dual-format player by LG (which admittedly hasn't passed HD-DVD standards because it doesn't play interactive discs). The slow Blu-Ray problem was fixed MONTHS ago, and CES debuted several Blu-Ray players without that problem. When did he write this, August 2006? I guess that's what you get when you get your tech info from Fortune magazine.

Porn picked HD-DVD, because it is cheaper. Oh, and no (Sony) Blu-Ray manufacturers would let them print their smut! Beta-max all over again indeed!! I thought the fight was Beta-max-ISH before, but to have Sony make the EXACT same mistake twice... that is some particularly impressive incompetence right there.

I still think both will survive.

New tech allows HD-DVD discs with 3 layers to go to 51GB. That's Toshiba's solution. Ritek claims to have done 10 layers - 150GB per disc on HD-DVD, and 250GB per disc on Blu-Ray. You'll need new players if they implement this technology (current players only read up to 2 layers).

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Postby Beer Moon » Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:36 am

Turns out Vivid got their smut onto Blu-Ray after all.

Another nail in the Blu-Ray coffin?

According to DigiTimes and its priceless sources, cost reductions in parts such as chipsets and heads are likely to see prices duck the dollar half-grand mark in the second half this year. µ

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Postby Slick Willy » Fri Jan 19, 2007 1:28 pm



Uh, you're kidding, right? The 20GB PS3 has been selling at $499 since it came out and is now readily available. Many people are buying it strictly to play movies on since it has an HDMI output and 1080P capability.

The coffin that's getting nailed shut is that of HD-DVD.

Jan 9, 2007 - Blu-ray Software Sales Surpass HD-DVD

These studios support Blu-Ray exclusively as of right now:

1. Disney
2. 20th Century Fox
3. MGM
4. Sony Pictures
5. Lions Gate
6. Bandai Visual
7. Digital Playground
8. Artisian
9. BCI
10. Magnolia

Warner Bros., Paramount, and Universal are the only studios keeping HD-DVD alive, but Warner Bros. & Paramount release on Blu-ray as well. Universal is the only major studio exclusive to HD-DVD.

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Postby Beer Moon » Fri Jan 19, 2007 2:49 pm

Slick Willy wrote:


Uh, you're kidding, right? The 20GB PS3 has been selling at $499 since it came out and is now readily available. Many people are buying it strictly to play movies on since it has an HDMI output and 1080P capability.

The coffin that's getting nailed shut is that of HD-DVD.

Jan 9, 2007 - Blu-ray Software Sales Surpass HD-DVD

These studios support Blu-Ray exclusively as of right now:

1. Disney
2. 20th Century Fox
3. MGM
4. Sony Pictures
5. Lions Gate
6. Bandai Visual
7. Digital Playground
8. Artisian
9. BCI
10. Magnolia

Warner Bros., Paramount, and Universal are the only studios keeping HD-DVD alive, but Warner Bros. & Paramount release on Blu-ray as well. Universal is the only major studio exclusive to HD-DVD.


At least I didn't source my stats from an HD-DVD site! Blu-Ray.com says that Blu-Ray is successful. Wow. Why not just post some quotes from a Sony executive?

"Many people are buying PS3s?". Well that's news to everyone who has a clue.

it looks like the official numbers still show a resounding Xbox 360 victory among next-gen systems during the month of December. Official stats being published by The NPD group show that Microsoft sold 1.1 million of its boxes last month, followed by Nintendo with 604,000 Wiis, and PS3 bringing up the rear with 491,000 consoles sold.


Xbox 360's HD-DVD addon sold about 100k units last year based on what I've read. That means that HD player-wise, consoles put Blu-Ray in the lead by 400,000 units or so.

Nobody is really dying to buy a PS3. I'm sure they did ship a million though, although I'm not sure I would rely on that to forecast the future of the HD wars when a pretty good chunk of them are still sitting on shelves.

If it was such a hot item for HD-DVD capability, then it should be sold out like the Wiis and Xbox 360s were for MONTHS after their launches. Rampant returns aren't really taken into account, but expect a LOT of returns. In factory-sealed unopened boxes no less.

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Postby Slick Willy » Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:28 am

This is a quote from you first link:
even though there were numerous scuffles and injuries in the race to secure a PS3, the first and only casualty in the next-gen wars turned out to be a woman trying to win a Wii for her children
Are you saying since nobody actually died trying to get a PS3 that itâ??s not doing well?

This is a quote from your second link:
McNealy said availability in stores of PS3s, which are more expensive than Wiis, does not necessarily indicate slack demand and that he would continue to monitor PS3 inventories closely.

Neither of your links proved anything!

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Postby MadMind » Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:01 am

I know what side I'm on but lets be honest, none of us can predict the future.
I was watching a little bit of 1993's Demolition Man last night, which is supposed to take place in the year 2032, and Sandra Bullock's character says to Sylvester Stallone's chracter something along the lines of; "Wow! You are even better in person than you are on Laser Disc!"

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Postby Slick Willy » Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:50 am

Beer Moon wrote:If it was such a hot item for HD-DVD capability, then it should be sold out like the Wiis and Xbox 360s were for MONTHS after their launches.

FYI, the PS3 is a Blu-ray player, not a HD-DVD player.

Beer Moon wrote:"Many people are buying PS3s?". Well that's news to everyone who has a clue.

Here's a quote taken from the article you gave a link to in the above quote: the overall king of Holiday Season 2006 was actually the PS2, with 1.4 million systems pushed out the door

Wow, your points keep looking better and better. :roll:

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The War is Over

Postby Slick Willy » Mon Jan 29, 2007 1:47 am

This was posted at the AVS Forum. It was soon deleted and it got the member banned. It was a great read, though.

The War is Over. Blu-ray has won, and deep down we all know it

Blu-ray is stomping HD-DVD in sales and movies and STILL has all the CE and studio support advantage it has enjoyed since the beginning. It's over. The war is over. Blu-ray won and all we have to do is wait for HD-DVD to CONTINUE to die. And deep down we all know it.

It really makes sense for self described Blu-ray fanboys like me to not post much anymore on here: Blu-ray is winning in absolutely everything and has no signs of slowing down. And it is winning with everything that counts. Capacity, bandwidth, number of movies, number of studios, numbers of players to choose from, copy protection with new methods yet to be implemented while HD-DVD is stuck, disc reliability with owners of both formats reporting Blu-ray is much more reliable, Blu-ray discs are on average CHEAPER because of no combos, and now Blu-ray has a very clear lead in SALES. I mean what else left is there? We've been hearing for months how "studios will just follow the money" but notice you don't hear that coming from the other side anymore.

What's funny if you look back, the HD-DVD camp has been wrong about just about everything. Hindsight is 20-20. Just look how many "regulars" don't post anymore on here and don't infiltrate every thread. There is a REASON why they don't post much anymore on here. There is nothing really left to argue over. And when they do, the arguments now a days have become just sad and not interesting, which is why I don't post much anymore. I know deep down that they are laughing a little bit inside when the arguments have turned to pornography and Shinco players with no price or release dates. It was fun when we didn't know what the future held as much and the arguments were heated, but now we are supposed to take HD-DVD seriously?

It's amazing how BD proved all these arguments wrong.

Let me summarize:

Remember BD-50's were just science fiction and would never come out? BD-50's were "inherently flawed." Then they did come out.

Then BD-50's were too expensive and wouldn't be common. They were inherently flawed to always be expensive and rare and "not needed." Why? Because the side arguing didn't have the capacity. Then they became more common.

Then MPEG-2 and BD-25 could not reproduce great quality--it was inherently flawed. Then MI:III came out.

Then BD players were all "twice the price of HD-DVD" because they were "all" $1000. And none of these people ever insinuated that these prices would go down--this was an inherent flaw to BD. Then the Sammy dropped to $599 on Amazon and the PS3 was released.

Then the Xbox 360 add-on would "neutralize" the PS3. It did not.

Then MS would announce an HD-DVD drive "built in" to neutralize the PS3. Then they denied that this was ever in the plans.

Then Triple Layer discs (which many recall were announced LAST year) were going to "neutralize the BD capacity advantage." But they never saw the light of day, and are STILL vaporware.

Then Blu-ray's were "vulnerable" to scratches, much moreso than HD-DVD, and they were inherently flawed for rental companies. But then people on here began to realise that it is HD-DVD that is much more vulnerable to scratches and Blu-ray discs were MUCH more reliable. A poll on here found only 3.7% of Blu-ray owners had a problem playing a rental while 25% of HD-DVD owners did. And guys like Gary and Fettastic, who were once hardcore HD-DVD fans who blasted Blu-ray every chance they got last summer, admitted that Blu-ray discs are much more reliable to own and much more resistant to scratches than HD-DVD's. And now these guys are Blu-ray fans! So that argument went away too.

Then the PS3 was released and the "poor sales" proved it would have no effect on Blu-ray. Then it went on to outsell the 360 comparatively at it's launch and now Blu-ray is clearly ahead in sales.

Since at this time of the PS3 launch the HD-DVD fan still had sales arguments on their side, then the arguments were that "studios would follow the money" so it isn't an idiotic decision to support a format that has only 3 major studios releasing content on it, because it was "just a matter of time" before studios would "see the light." Never happened. Still only 3 major studios releasing content on a format that is still basically just Toshiba and an optional video game console add-on, with still only one exclusive studio who seems uninterested in fully supporting the format with "100" mystery titles to be release sometime this year, 90% of which will be on combo! THAT is HD-DVD. And oh, about those sales arguments, well Blu-ray is now outselling HD-DVD so obviously we don't hear the "follow the money" slogan anymore. Notice that? The hope is now in cheap porn and Chinese junk players--and oh, in case you forgot, these players don't have any announced prices or release dates, just like the movies.

After the PS3 arguments the goalposts were switched to CES. CES was going to be big for HD-DVD with new studios going neutral for them and new big name CE companies coming on board. They knew they needed some major CE support and at least one studio going neutral, and this hope was so great that there were literally posters PROMISING people that at least one Blu-ray studio would go neutral at CES. Didn't happen. And as far as CE all they got was some junk names like Shinco not one of them has ever owned, and a bunch of "mystery movies" with no release dates. And oh, don't forget that giant lump of coal from Universal.

---

These arguments all turned out to be wrong. But at least they were somewhat interesting because we were all waiting with baited breath to see how the PS3 would effect sales and what would happen at CES.

And now that it has turned out that things are not better for HD-DVD now but FAR FAR WORSE, with all the problems they had before but now they have to contend with a better selling Blu-ray who has more movies coming out every week in February than HD-DVD has for the entire month, and you have a situation where there is no real reason to get into arguments anymore on here regarding a "war" because there is no war--we should all admit that, deep down, we all know that Blu-ray has won. It has won with capacity, bandwidth, scratch resistance and reliability for our archives, studios, player choices, more MOVIES, and now clearly BETTER SALES. There is no war anymore. And deep down we all know it and should move on and just get Universal to go neutral so we can come together and focus on the MOVIES.

It WAS fun while it lasted. There sure were some heated debates on here.


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Postby Beer Moon » Tue Jan 30, 2007 7:08 pm

Heh yeah all I have said is that there isn't going to be a winner basically, and Blu-Ray fanboy Slick Willy continues to claim the format a winner based on a game console.

Whatever.

That AVS Forum delete-ban post just goes to show how well those forums are moderated.

I'll be happy when the consumer wins. That's why I cheer LG's dual format player. I'd like to see more of them, because more means eventually they'll drop into the $2-300 range, at which point I might actually be tempted to buy one.

Sony is backing BluRay and Microsoft is backing HD-DVD, so face it, neither of them are going anywhere anytime soon.

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Postby Slick Willy » Tue Jan 30, 2007 10:26 pm

Beer Moon wrote:Blu-Ray fanboy Slick Willy continues to claim the format a winner based on a game console.


I never said a game console is going to win the HD format war! In fact, what I said would lead to the success of Blu-ray over HD-DVD was the overwhelming support of most of the major movie studios. Beer Moon, you fudge your facts a lot, and it's getting really annoying!

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Postby Beer Moon » Wed Jan 31, 2007 1:07 pm

Slick Willy wrote:
Beer Moon wrote:Blu-Ray fanboy Slick Willy continues to claim the format a winner based on a game console.


I never said a game console is going to win the HD format war! In fact, what I said would lead to the success of Blu-ray over HD-DVD was the overwhelming support of most of the major movie studios. Beer Moon, you fudge your facts a lot, and it's getting really annoying!


You're the one posting stats from the same companies who sell the devices, not me. I'm trying to quote unbiased sources.

I'm only arguing with your flawed "points", if they can even be called that (PS2 outsold next-gen consoles - who cares). I'm not the one claiming a console is signaling the HD format war.


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