Cultural Insensitivity

If it doesn't fit anywhere else, it fits here
Stu Levitan
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Re: Cultural Insensitivity

Postby Stu Levitan » Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:42 pm

Jason, obviously MNA and TRC are not government agencies. The topic morphed when someone commented that not only was it ok for them to meet/fundraise on religious holidays, but city committees should meet as well.

Kurt, I'm sorry you disapprove of my comments. All I can say is that when people declare that the city should reverse its existing policy and force me to choose between observing my religion and participating in my goverment, I take it personally.

Henry Vilas
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Re: Cultural Insensitivity

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:46 pm

Stu Levitan wrote:... force me to choose between observing my religion and participating in my goverment, I take it personally.

Did that conflict ever come up in the many years you worked for the state government? If so, how did you resolve it?

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Re: Cultural Insensitivity

Postby Endo Rockstar » Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:05 pm

Stu Levitan wrote:... force me to choose between observing my religion and participating in my goverment, I take it personally.


Image

If only we had a governement who's laws were dictated by a religion...we'd never have to worry about this very issue.....it can't fail!!!!

-Dan Motor

Stu Levitan
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Re: Cultural Insensitivity

Postby Stu Levitan » Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:09 pm

Not sure the relevance, Henry, but I took VAC/PH for Passover, LWOP for Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur (because I did not want to be in pay status at all on those two holidays).

Dan, if you don't see the difference between respecting someone's religion and allowing religion to dictate laws, little I can do to enlighten you.

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Re: Cultural Insensitivity

Postby Huckleby » Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:12 pm

Ducatista wrote:And: catholic service? Poser.
A "mass" fits comfortably under the umbrella "church service." You could look it up :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_(liturgy)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_service

Do you refer to your wedding as a mass?
I didn't think so, you probably just call it "the big mistake."

A catholic church wedding is a "mass", just as "the stations of the cross" also embeds a mass in there. I called it a "service" because "mass" doesn't capture the event any better than a "jog" describes a marathon.

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Re: Cultural Insensitivity

Postby peripat » Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:17 pm

Not sure why thinking government and religion should be completely separate should be taken as an antisemitic rant either- I think xmas is the only nominally christian holiday that often falls during the week now- good Friday having lost the fight years ago- but as far as I'm concerned that can go too. I am not, however, ready to give up weekends which we'd never get back, though I'm fine with moving them to Friday/Saturday or Sunday/Monday.

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Re: Cultural Insensitivity

Postby Endo Rockstar » Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:20 pm

Stu Levitan wrote:Dan, if you don't see the difference between respecting someone's religion and allowing religion to dictate laws, little I can do to enlighten you.


This whole thread is just the worst Seinfeld episode, ever.

-Dan Motor

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Re: Cultural Insensitivity

Postby jjoyce » Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:23 pm

I started choosing secular amusement over religion AND government years ago and haven't looked back since. As far as I'm concerned, those who inundate us with concerns about either are often insufferable. Avoid at all costs.

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Re: Cultural Insensitivity

Postby Meade » Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:22 pm

jjoyce wrote:As far as I'm concerned, those who inundate us with concerns about either are often insufferable. Avoid at all costs.

Could a comment drip with more arrogance and conceit? Listen to Jason Joyce, kids -- your forum administrator and moral superior.

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Re: Cultural Insensitivity

Postby jjoyce » Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:29 pm

Sorry, judge. Did I threaten your role as TDPF scold?

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Re: Cultural Insensitivity

Postby Meade » Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:39 pm

Jason's whine -- full-bodied sarcasm, with notes of bitterness and a strong sexist finish.

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Re: Cultural Insensitivity

Postby kurt_w » Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:44 pm

Stu Levitan wrote:Kurt, I'm sorry you disapprove of my comments. All I can say is that when people declare that the city should reverse its existing policy and force me to choose between observing my religion and participating in my goverment, I take it personally.

Well, the question is how you react when you "take something personally." It's one thing to have strong feelings about it. It's another to assume that because you have strong feelings about it, the people who disagree with you must be motivated by bigotry.

There are certainly reasonable points that can be made on both sides of this argument. In general, it's in the interests of neighborhood groups and city boards to make it as easy as possible for Madison residents to participate in their meetings and events. If holding an event on a certain day will make it difficult or impossible for part of the population to attend, that's a good reason to avoid scheduling the event for that day.

On the other hand, many people here have pointed out that it's conceptually problematic for government to maintain a list of officially recognized religions whose holidays the city will observe. If the government recognizes Christianity and Judaism, why not Islam? If you add Islam, why not Baha'i and Hinduism and Buddhism and Wicca and ... the list could go on indefinitely. Rather than start down that road, maybe it IS simplest to just say that government won't formally recognize any religious holidays.

That's not an inherently "anti-semitic" position, and when you assume that people who make that suggestion are motivated by bigotry, it doesn't make them more likely to listen to you and it doesn't help you think clear-headedly about the issue.

Stu Levitan
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Re: Cultural Insensitivity

Postby Stu Levitan » Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:15 pm

I understand your point, Kurt. The reason I considered their position anti-Semitic is because the policy explicitly benefits Jews; to reverse that policy explicitly hurts Jews but not adherents of other faiths. But I see your point.

Stu Levitan
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Re: Cultural Insensitivity

Postby Stu Levitan » Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:23 pm

And, for the record, I think the city went overboard in banning meetings today and tomorrow (last two nights of Pesach).

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Re: Cultural Insensitivity

Postby jjoyce » Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:26 pm

Meade wrote:Jason's whine -- full-bodied sarcasm, with notes of bitterness and a strong sexist finish.


whine (especially when substituted for wine)
sarcasm
bitter
sexist

That's hitting for the cycle, baby!

Looks like you're coming up on a 36-month TDPF anniversary having selflessly generated nearly 3,000 posts. Assuming each required a minute of composition (likely a nearly criminal underestimation), that's 50 hours of labor. Fifty hours spent illuminating, edifying, enlightening, enthralling, provoking... Hell, Inspiring!

Who says a masterpiece can't be penned in a week?

We've got a great thing going here, Laurence Meade. Here's to three more magical, mischievous, magnificent years!

[Note: I'm at my desk, so I'm not drinking. But rest assured that when I get home and prepare for myself a drink, I will raise it as if to toast.]


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