Cultural Insensitivity

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Prof. Wagstaff
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Re: Cultural Insensitivity

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:52 pm

Seems to me Stu has made his choice: ancient cultural practices based on imaginary stories* are more important to him than participation in modern matters of practical importance. This, in a nutshell, is why I rejected religion so long ago: basing your life around mythological bullshit at the expense of the real world seems foolish to me (whether one actually believes the bullshit or simply thinks the cultural ritual is important to preserve is irrelevant, in my view.) Does that make Stu's desire to participate in the ancient rituals invented by primitive, superstitious desert-dwellers thousands of years ago unimportant or invalid? Not to him, certainly, but it does make it impossible for people who choose to live in the real, modern world to do anything but scratch their heads in wonder at the choice he expects everyone else to understand and respect.

Keep religion out of my government. Period.

*And I'm not merely talking about Yahweh being just another imaginary deity or the absurdity of the details of the Pesach story involving the Angel of Death, a magic rod, or a bush which burns but is never consumed. No, even the "believable" parts of the story ring false, as there is no historical evidence whatsoever that the ancient Hebrews were ever enslaved by Egyptians. The entire "origin story" of Jews is most likely bullshit. And if you really want to talk cultural insensitivity, how about that of the Hebrews who, after supposedly being lead from bondage into The Promised Land, discovered inconveniently that it was already populated by Unchosen People, necessitating a little holy slaughter. I used to get in a lot of trouble for asking about this whenever we got to the part of Seder about how we should love strangers.

wallrock
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Re: Cultural Insensitivity

Postby wallrock » Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:58 pm

There have been times I've invited a friend of mine to events and he's declined due to conflicts with Rosh Hashana or Yom Kippur or some other holiday, to which I'd always say, "Shit dude, I did not know that." Was it cultural insensitivity on my part to be ignorant of the dates of these holidays? Maybe a bit, but I have a hard enough time remembering birthdays and those don't move around on the calendar.

Henry Vilas
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Re: Cultural Insensitivity

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:11 pm

As a lapsed Catholic, I wonder does the RCC still have Holy Days of Obligation (where one is required to attend Mass or risk committing a mortal sin and possible damnation)? My favorite was New Years Day, celebrating the circumcision of Jesus H. Christ.

acereraser
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Re: Cultural Insensitivity

Postby acereraser » Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:40 pm

Stu Levitan wrote:Yeah, how could I have been so wrong as to find anti-Semitism in this thread. Bdog just wants society's permission to hate Jews! Nothing wrong with that, is there?


Sorry I'm late, but I don't want to miss out on all the insensitive fun. Congratulations to you, Stu Levitan, for finding anti-Semitism in this thread. I don't think anyone else could have done it.

And bdog, I don't think you need society's permission to hate Jews, but if you want it, let it begin with me. You officially have my permission to hate Jews, as well as the Christian Reformed, Shakers, Kiwis, sticky wickets, and rainy days. Go nuts.

jman111
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Re: Cultural Insensitivity

Postby jman111 » Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:48 pm

acereraser wrote:And bdog, I don't think you need society's permission to hate Jews, but if you want it, let it begin with me. You officially have my permission to hate Jews, as well as the Christian Reformed, Shakers...

Don't hate the player(s), hate the game(s).

DCB
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Re: Cultural Insensitivity

Postby DCB » Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:50 pm

acereraser wrote:Sorry I'm late, but I don't want to miss out on all the insensitive fun. Congratulations to you, Stu Levitan, for finding anti-Semitism in this thread. I don't think anyone else could have done it.


Interviewer: Good evening. I have with me in the studio tonight one of the country's leading skin specialists, Raymond Luxury Yacht.
Raymond Luxury Yacht: That's not my name!
Interviewer: [tries literal pronunciation] I'm sorry; Raymond Luxury Yatscht.
Raymond Luxury Yacht: No no no, it's spelled, "Raymond Luxury Yacht," but it's pronounced, "Throat Warbler Mangrove".
Interviewer: You are a very silly man, and I'm not going to interview you.
Raymond Luxury Yacht: Ah, ha! Anti-Semitism!

http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0027524/

penquin
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Re: Cultural Insensitivity

Postby penquin » Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:28 pm

Since Mr. L brought it up, I'd really like to know how it is determined if a religion is "real" or not.

Stu Levitan
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Re: Cultural Insensitivity

Postby Stu Levitan » Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:44 pm

Did I use that word?

bdog
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Re: Cultural Insensitivity

Postby bdog » Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:51 pm

bdog wrote:
Stu Levitan wrote:So, for the record -- do you believe the city should reverse its current policy and allow government meetings to take place on important religious holidays?

Who gets to decide that? They're all important to people observing them are they not?

Is it ok to be culturally insensitive as long as it only affects a small number of people?

Bump. Who gets to decide which religious holidays are important?

TheBookPolice
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Re: Cultural Insensitivity

Postby TheBookPolice » Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:18 pm

Stu Levitan wrote:Did I use that word?

I'm afraid so. Though it's not clear how you meant it.

Stu Levitan wrote:Huck, as I said, other than fasting, I am not aware of the restrictions, if any, on Muslims engaging in secular activity during Ramadan the way there are during the Jewish holidays. If there are, or there are for the other major Muslim holidays, certainly the same protections should apply.

BTW - it's not "Jewish sensibilities." It's Judaism. You know, like a real religion.

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Re: Cultural Insensitivity

Postby Huckleby » Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:57 pm

Uhhh, when Stu said "real religion" he was not characterizing different religious faiths. He was nit-picking language for ethnicity as opposed to religion. So Stu was being annoying, but suggesting he was deprecating other faiths is a low blow.

Huckleby, Madison Chapter President
Jews for Jesus

Stu Levitan
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Re: Cultural Insensitivity

Postby Stu Levitan » Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:26 am

Huck, I appreciate that. You discerned and explained my comment very well.

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Re: Cultural Insensitivity

Postby Stu Levitan » Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:44 am

bdog, i thought i described what i mean, will try again. an important religious holiday is one where observant adherents to a faith refrain from secular activity, attend worship service, practice specific rituals and hold ritualized feasts. in my world, that's rosh/yom and the first two Seders, and i greatly appreciate that my city protects me from having to choose between following my faith and participating in local government. i think that's a sign of respect, not entanglement. if there are a meaningful number of observant adherents to other faiths with similar restrictions, i think they should be respected as well.the more that faith is represented in the community, the more serious the restrictions, and the more observant its adherents, the greater the need for accommodation. (btw, i don't expect the city to go so far as to accommodate my attendance at shabbat services or morning minyan.) (funny story -- I got a parking ticket last year when morning services ran late, which i didn't challenge based on religious activity). does that answer your question?

Stu Levitan
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Re: Cultural Insensitivity

Postby Stu Levitan » Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:45 am

bdog wrote:
Meade wrote:And suggesting that Stu, as chair of a governmental commission, would behave that way toward any other group of religious Americans is deliberately and gratuitously insulting and, in my opinion, Stu is owed an apology.

I didn't mean to suggest, I was out and out saying it.


bdog, over the past 30 years I have chaired the CDA, Landmarks Commission, Zoning Board of Appeals, Madison Development Corp, County Affirmative Action Commission, County Public Protection & Judiciary Committee, County Housing Council, State Street Mall Committee, Bassett Neighborhood Association, Starter Home Task Force, and some others I've forgotten. I challenge you to find a single instance when I demeaned, disregarded, or disrespected anyone based on religion, or any other protected status category.

bdog
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Re: Cultural Insensitivity

Postby bdog » Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:12 am

Stu just tell me which Sikh holidays you didn't meet on during those 30 years and we're all good.


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