Take this job and shove it.

If it doesn't fit anywhere else, it fits here
quitter
Member
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:11 pm

Take this job and shove it.

Postby quitter » Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:42 pm

I'm giving notice tomorrow, and I'm nervous as all hell about it. I've quit jobs before, but this one is different. I'm leaving my first full-time, professional position, so it's the first time I've ever had to think about what happens to the benefits of such a job.

Here's what I stand to lose:

- I did not get reviewed 6 months ago, so I did not get my raise this year. I was told I'd get a check that would cover the raise retroactively when we got around to the review. I'm guessing I'm giving this up when I give my notice.
- Last year the boss decided to give bonuses at the end of the year only, not project-specific bonuses. This is a significant amount of money, but I can't realistically expect anything for projects completed in the past 8 months if I leave.
- Earned time off: I have about 3 weeks of vacation and personal days that I haven't used.

Since I'm most likely losing out on the first two (the bonus being the big one), I really want to get paid for unused earned time off. Is this something the company is obligated to pay me for? There's also been a verbal understanding that any overtime can be taken as personal/vacation time (I'm salaried), something that I gave up doing a long time ago because I never had the chance to use it - but it adds up to about a month of time for 2007. (I feel I've been compensated for overtime in past years with bonuses.)

Anyone have any experiences they'd like to share? Thoughts on how to approach this in a manner that will hopefully end in me getting compensated, at least in part, for those 2 months of earned time off? I'm giving two weeks notice, and can stay a little longer if asked nicely. Hell, I still plan on working on Labor Day next week so I can get as much done as possible before I leave this place.

Are my friends and family right when they say that I should just move on and forget about trying to get any money?

ShaneDog
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 4296
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2002 2:46 pm
Location: E Wash
Contact:

Postby ShaneDog » Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:49 pm

Take the 3 weeks of vacation/PTO and use it to relax, enjoy the last few weeks of summer, and search for a new job. Give your 2 weeks notice the day you come back. If anyone questions you, explain that you weren't sure if they would compensate you for that time if you put in the two weeks before. If they are that far behind on your review and paying out on those bonuses they have no ethical ground to stand on.

mrak
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 2395
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2004 2:26 pm

Re: Take this job and shove it.

Postby mrak » Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:49 pm

quitter wrote:I really want to get paid for unused earned time off. Is this something the company is obligated to pay me for?

They're under no obligation to anything but their own company policy. I've worked for companies that pay out unused vacation time, and companies that don't - and a company that changed their policy from the former to the latter while I was employed there (they provided fair advance notice of the change).

I'm giving notice tomorrow, and I'm nervous as all hell about it. I've quit jobs before, but this one is different. I'm leaving my first full-time, professional position...

I've changed full-time jobs within my career a few times now, and the decision to move on never gets any easier for me. It's a big choice.

But I guess that makes me fortunate that I've never had a job I really disliked, at least to the point I felt I had to leave. I hope you'll be able to say the same.

supaunknown
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 5578
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2002 3:22 pm

Postby supaunknown » Thu Aug 30, 2007 3:03 pm

Wow, you stand to lose quite a bit. If the problem's your boss (and you don't mind losing the job reference) why not just directly call him/her a "gaping a-hole fuckwad" in front of witneses and hope they fire you instead of quitting? That way they'd likely have to make good on all your retro/vacation pay, etc.

Of course you could simply talk to them like the professional you are and explain that you're thinking about resigning and ask them straight out what they'll do for you.

quitter
Member
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:11 pm

Postby quitter » Thu Aug 30, 2007 3:23 pm

I wish I could take those 3 weeks off and provide my notice to them when I returned - but there's no way I could get a vacation approved right now. We are way too busy - which is why I'm prepared to stay on for more than 2 weeks if they want me to. I have another job offer, so I don't have that amount of time, either.

They're under no obligation to anything but their own company policy.

There is nothing in the company's operational policy on what happens to this time when our relationship is terminated. Which to me seems to be a positive. Since this time is earned, it's a part of my pay and is owed to me unless stated otherwise. At least I hope so.

At this point, I wouldn't mind calling the boss a "gaping a-hole fuckwad", but there would be no witnesses to this event. It's just me and the boss in this office. And I'd rather leave on good terms. I'm not sure it's possible to, but I want to try.

I've loved this job for most of the past 5 years - but I'm ready to move on. I don't think I'll regret it. This change should bring huge quality of life gains.

I still want some money, though.

auntgoodness
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 1236
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 4:12 pm

Postby auntgoodness » Thu Aug 30, 2007 5:24 pm

Heh. I'd wager you have more chance of getting dough for unused vacation if you don't call your boss a nasty name first. You're right to try to leave on good terms, even if you have to fake it.

juanton
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 2751
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 3:24 pm
Contact:

Postby juanton » Thu Aug 30, 2007 6:42 pm

Yeah, be nice for a bit, get what's coming financially to you.

I'm not sure how you feel about burning bridges, but wouldn't you need a good record with this place for your next job?

As someone who has sat on many interview panels(~20), the person that complains about their previous job and boss usually got low marks in our individual interview notes, i.e. the other party isn't there to plead their case. You only look weak.

Velveeta
Forum Addict
Posts: 388
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 4:33 pm

Postby Velveeta » Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:07 pm

quitter wrote:
They're under no obligation to anything but their own company policy.

Since this time is earned, it's a part of my pay and is owed to me unless stated otherwise. At least I hope so.
.


Look closely at any company policy documents. Do they refer to vacation anywhere as a vested benefit or an unvested benefit?
Because if it's a unvested benefit, I would not assume there is a cash equivalent owed to you.

Do you get your vacation time at the beginning of the year, or the end, meaning are you earning it as you work every year, or is it based on the prior years service. Even if it is a cash payout, you might not have earned the entire amount for the year yet.

It sounds as if you have some loyalty to this job, or you would not worry about them being busy, or staying longer than the customary 2 weeks. Because you could fake a family emergency, take at least a few weeks of what you think it owed to you and then resign. Companies don't give notice when they are going to fire you, so I think it's a courtesy, not an obligation to give 2 weeks notice when you fire them as your employer.

Good Luck

Nick Berigan
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 592
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2003 5:12 pm
Contact:

Postby Nick Berigan » Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:36 am

Last I checked, a growing number of workplaces are instituting policies of not doing references for various legal reasons.

The upside of this policy, where in place, would seem to be "let it rip", no?

Velveeta
Forum Addict
Posts: 388
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 4:33 pm

Postby Velveeta » Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:05 am

Nick Berigan wrote:Last I checked, a growing number of workplaces are instituting policies of not doing references for various legal reasons.

The upside of this policy, where in place, would seem to be "let it rip", no?


I can't give references for past employees due to liability issues, which I always thought was ridiculous, because my company wants references when someone comes to work for us.

Beer Moon
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 2032
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 7:08 pm
Contact:

Postby Beer Moon » Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:05 am

Nick Berigan wrote:Last I checked, a growing number of workplaces are instituting policies of not doing references for various legal reasons.

The upside of this policy, where in place, would seem to be "let it rip", no?


Seems like a silly risk to me. When you're changing jobs within the same industry - you never know who will find out, and you also don't know which of your former co-workers or bosses might not always work at that same company in the future. There may come a day when you have a much better opportunity at a different place, and your conduct in leaving is remembered. Being a dick just to blow off some steam seems like an invitation for some bad karma to me.

Rather than channeling my energy in a negative enterprise like this, I funnel my frustration into the search for a new (and better) opportunity. When you have a significant raise and better benefits staring you in the face, simply knowing the quality work you did there and the fact that they will have to live without has always been enough for me.

If the company policy is to pay for vacation, then you will get paid for it. If the company policy is not to do that, then you won't get anything out of them. If you are really actually owed overtime and were not compensated you should contact an attorney if they refuse to pay you for it. But I would first consider how much they actually owe you, whether or not you can actually prove it, and whether the cost of the legal battle and long-drawn out process is worth the trouble. I wouldn't bother unless it was worth at LEAST $5000.

Just don't expect to get any money out of them because you don't like them, are frustrated, or because they aren't doing well financially and couldn't offer you your scheduled raise. I'm surprised you don't know your own company's policy on compensating you for unused time off though. Usually it's made pretty clear. See if you can get your hands on an employee manual and check it out?

Sounds like you have another job lined up already though. If it's better than the one you're at, I would tend to agree with your friends and family.

Bwis53
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 6668
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 9:39 pm
Location: Bay Creek
Contact:

Postby Bwis53 » Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:07 am

Nick Berigan wrote:Last I checked, a growing number of workplaces are instituting policies of not doing references for various legal reasons.

The upside of this policy, where in place, would seem to be "let it rip", no?


This is something that's been bothering me, for quite awhile. Places I've asked, after they turned me down, are very obtuse as to why. The last place was a key public situation, absolutely in my field and experience. I took their code to mean: You are not young, pretty and perky enough, an oh, by the way, drop dead. My current boss refuses to do calls to see if I'm getting a bad reference, and I'm getting desparate enough to find a stealthy way to do that.

quitter
Member
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:11 pm

Postby quitter » Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:21 am

I have no intention of calling my boss any names, that's not my style. I think the manner in which I am leaving (with 2-3 weeks notice) is fair and should be acceptable. As it is now, I would get a good reference, and I would like to maintain in good standing so I can use him as a reference in the future.

The problem is that the boss is extremely stressed out right now and prone to emotional outbursts. I don't expect him to take the news very well, but I could be wrong. I'll find out this afternoon.

This is more nerve-wracking than breaking up with someone.

quitter
Member
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:11 pm

Postby quitter » Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:32 am

Beer Moon wrote:If the company policy is to pay for vacation, then you will get paid for it. If the company policy is not to do that, then you won't get anything out of them. If you are really actually owed overtime and were not compensated you should contact an attorney if they refuse to pay you for it. But I would first consider how much they actually owe you, whether or not you can actually prove it, and whether the cost of the legal battle and long-drawn out process is worth the trouble. I wouldn't bother unless it was worth at LEAST $5000.

Just don't expect to get any money out of them because you don't like them, are frustrated, or because they aren't doing well financially and couldn't offer you your scheduled raise. I'm surprised you don't know your own company's policy on compensating you for unused time off though. Usually it's made pretty clear. See if you can get your hands on an employee manual and check it out?

Sounds like you have another job lined up already though. If it's better than the one you're at, I would tend to agree with your friends and family.

The problem with not getting my raise six months ago was due to the meeting always getting postponed because he's too busy, it has nothing to do with lack of funds.

As far as policies go, there aren't many on paper. The whole enchilada is on two pages. My vacation is accrued monthly, so that has been earned, and I definitely want the money for that. The back-pay for the raise is barely even worth mentioning when this goes down later, and not worth going to court over. The bonus (last year it was 10K) would be worth fighting for, if it were possible. I'm totally losing out there, but c'est la vie!

Bwis53
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 6668
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 9:39 pm
Location: Bay Creek
Contact:

Postby Bwis53 » Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:37 am

The boss, who laid me off, also had a kinds of weird problems, so that's the one I'm suspicious of, even though, they said they'd give me a good reference.


Return to “Catch All”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests