Yes FBI investigating Russia, no Obama not tapping Trump's phone

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.
Roy
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Re: Yes FBI investigating Russia, no Obama not tapping Trump's phone

Postby Roy » Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:43 pm

Ok for all you lefties that will only get the news from your favorite talking points news outlet.

Top Obama Adviser Sought Names of Trump Associates in Intel

[Rice’s] role in requesting the identities of Trump transition officials adds an important element to the dueling investigations surrounding the Trump White House since the president’s inauguration.

Both the House and Senate intelligence committees are probing any ties between Trump associates and a Russian influence operation against Hillary Clinton during the election. The chairman of the House intelligence committee, Representative Devin Nunes, is also investigating how the Obama White House kept tabs on the Trump transition after the election through unmasking the names of Trump associates incidentally collected in government eavesdropping of foreign officials.


Rice herself, like Evelyn Farkas has gone Sergeant Schultz.

Rice herself has not spoken directly on the issue of unmasking. Last month when she was asked on the “PBS NewsHour” about reports that Trump transition officials, including Trump himself, were swept up in incidental intelligence collection, Rice said: “I know nothing about this,” adding, “I was surprised to see reports from Chairman Nunes on that account today.”


The news about Rice…sheds light on the strange behavior of Nunes in the last two weeks. It emerged last week that he traveled to the White House last month, the night before he made an explosive allegation about Trump transition officials caught up in incidental surveillance. At the time he said he needed to go to the White House because the reports were only on a database for the executive branch. It now appears that he needed to view computer systems within the National Security Council that would include the logs of Rice’s requests to unmask U.S. persons.

The ranking Democrat on the committee Nunes chairs, Representative Adam Schiff, viewed these reports on Friday. In comments to the press over the weekend he declined to discuss the contents of these reports, but also said it was highly unusual for the reports to be shown only to Nunes and not himself and other members of the committee.

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Re: Yes FBI investigating Russia, no Obama not tapping Trump's phone

Postby jman111 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:01 pm

The standard for senior officials to learn the names of U.S. persons incidentally collected is that it must have some foreign intelligence value, a standard that can apply to almost anything. This suggests Rice's unmasking requests were likely within the law.

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Re: Yes FBI investigating Russia, no Obama not tapping Trump's phone

Postby jman111 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:07 pm

The totally phony Susan Rice story, explained

“There is no legal issue, and if the conversations were by official members of the presidential transition team conducting government business, it is hard to even see what privacy interest those individuals had in such conversations,” Martin said.


Hennessey also wrote that “what we’re seeing here is US officials doing jobs to respond to what had markers of a counterintelligence threat: the Trump campaign.”


All of the official reports and so far have disputed Trump’s comparison to Watergate and claims that the wiretapping was illegal.

While trying to come up with evidence, however, Nunes has been caught corroborating with Trump officials, raising questions about the legitimacy of his investigation and his relationship with the administration. By now trying to implicate Rice, who is already seen as villainous by many in the GOP, conservatives are searching hard for a distraction.


(my emphasis-- surprise face!!)

Roy
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Re: Yes FBI investigating Russia, no Obama not tapping Trump's phone

Postby Roy » Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:18 pm

Your link is sort of like proving that water isn't wet. Image

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Re: Yes FBI investigating Russia, no Obama not tapping Trump's phone

Postby jman111 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:26 pm

Oh Cool, A Bullshit Non-Story About Susan Rice Doing ‘Wire Tapps’ To Donald Trump. BURN HER!!!

In his Bloomberg piece, Eli Lake notes that this information doesn’t in any way make Trump’s original Twitter shitstorm about Obama putting “wire tapps” inside his fanny true. It’s just a thing that happened, and if Susan Rice requested U.S. persons’ names to be unmasked, she, the national security adviser to a competent president, probably had a good fucking reason to do so.

And it was legal.

Roy
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Re: Yes FBI investigating Russia, no Obama not tapping Trump's phone

Postby Roy » Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:36 pm

jman111 wrote:And it was legal.

There is nothing illegal about Rice asking names to be unmasked. Leaking those names to people who lack the security clearance is a federal felony.

One such criminal leak involved Gen. Michael Flynn – Rice's short-lived successor – whose name was leaked to a reporter just days into the Trump administration.

Routine surveillance conducted on phone conversations of Russia's U.S. ambassador Sergey Kislyak revealed that he had been talking with Flynn.

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Re: Yes FBI investigating Russia, no Obama not tapping Trump's phone

Postby snoqueen » Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:41 pm

Think of it this way: Somebody at the top of the Trump administration, if not Trump himself, wanted to test Devin Nunes loyalties. Is he on our side, or the side of the house investigation?

They offered him some documents, with drama and secrecy right on the White House grounds, to see if he'd run straight to the President with them, or to the House committee on which he serves in his elected position.

Guess where he went.

Guess what they concluded.

And guess what. Most viewers would agree. Case closed. The rest of this argument is inane distraction by people who do not want to know what was actually going on and what the FBI is investigating.

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Re: Yes FBI investigating Russia, no Obama not tapping Trump's phone

Postby jman111 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:44 pm

snoqueen wrote:The rest of this argument is inane distraction by people who do not want to know what was actually going on.

Bingo!

The Right Wing Is Trying to Make the Trump “Wiretapp” Scandal About Susan Rice
The FBI is currently investigating whether Donald Trump advisers collaborated inappropriately with Russian officials before and after last November's election. The White House has responded to the investigation by arguing that the real scandal is that Trump associates were surveilled inappropriately by the Obama administration.

(...)

The pushback effort hit a snag last week when House Intelligence Committee Chairman Devin Nunes was caught collaborating with Trump administration officials on a scheme to obscure the source of some vaguely suggestive information about said surveillance that he'd gotten from the White House itself. Monday morning, though, it became clear that the next phase of the Trump counterattack is ready to launch despite the Nunes embarrassment—and that this phase will involve trying to make Obama national security adviser Susan Rice into the villain of the affair.

Roy
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Re: Yes FBI investigating Russia, no Obama not tapping Trump's phone

Postby Roy » Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:51 pm

WTF don't you people understand about unmasking is legal. Leaking those unmasked names and documents to people without security clearance ( the press ) is a federal crime. I.E. The Flynn unmasking and "dissemination."

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Re: Yes FBI investigating Russia, no Obama not tapping Trump's phone

Postby Cadfael » Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:52 pm

Roy wrote:WTF don't you people understand about unmasking is legal. Leaking those unmasked names and documents to people without security clearance ( the press ) is a federal crime. I.E. The Flynn unmasking and "dissemination."

You mean like that agent Cheney outed?

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Re: Yes FBI investigating Russia, no Obama not tapping Trump's phone

Postby Bland » Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:13 pm

You aren't allowed to tell other people they don't understand stuff, Roy. Not unless you fess up about misunderstanding that video you posted anyway.

Roy
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Re: Yes FBI investigating Russia, no Obama not tapping Trump's phone

Postby Roy » Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:19 pm

Bland wrote:You aren't allowed to tell other people they don't understand stuff, Roy. Not unless you fess up about misunderstanding that video you posted anyway.

I think either you didn't watch the video, don't understand what you watched, or refuse to believe your eyes.

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Re: Yes FBI investigating Russia, no Obama not tapping Trump's phone

Postby Bland » Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:44 pm

Roy wrote:I think either you didn't watch the video, don't understand what you watched, or refuse to believe your eyes.

That's what we've been telling you.
So I guess I'll ask again. Please tell us exactly what is said in the video that says what you claim it does. A quote and a time reference would be ideal.
Please don't respond again unless you're willing to back up your assertion.
Cuz this shit's getting tiresome.

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Re: Yes FBI investigating Russia, no Obama not tapping Trump's phone

Postby jonnygothispen » Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:52 pm

... another tough decision for Roy. Tell the truth or...

Image

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Re: Yes FBI investigating Russia, no Obama not tapping Trump's phone

Postby Cadfael » Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:41 am

From Jim Wright's facebook page:
компромат

See this? This was retweeted by your president this morning.
Image

It was created by Matt Drudge of the Drudge Report.

Look at this tweet dispassionately. It's brilliant. As a bullet of information warfare, it's perfect.

Look at the construction of the Tweet carefully. All Caps. All insinuation. The reader does all the heavy lifting. And he ended it with a question mark. That's a classic begging-the-question logical fallacy. It's a get out of jail free card. If he gets called on it, he can just shrug and say, I was just asking a question is all. But his audience, Trump's audience, they never even noticed that question mark.

"RICE ORDERED SPY DOCS ON TRUMP?"

It shouts at you. Six words.

What it actually means is: The National Security Adviser did her job by requesting information from the Intelligence Community regarding National Security issues surrounding the presidential election.

But what the target audience sees is: THAT CRIMINAL TRAITOR WHORE BITCH SUSAN RICE WHO MURDERED FOUR BRAVE AMERICANS IN BENGHAZI, YEAH THAT SUSAN RICE, SHE ORDERED THE CIA AND NSA AND THE FBI TO SPY ON OUR GREAT PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP WHO IS OBVIOUSLY RIGHT AND THIS PROVES IT! THIS PROVES THAT TRAITOR SCUM OBAMA SPIED ON DONALD TRUMP! SMOKING GUN! SMOKING GUN!

If they do follow the link to the original article at the Daily Caller, they'll find a sensational piece notable more for what it doesn't say than what it does.

And that's how it's done. Right there.

As a tactic of information warfare, it's perfect.

This -- THIS -- is Fake News.

This is Kompromat.


This is aimed directly at conservatives who already hate Obama and hate Rice beyond any measure of reason and who are therefore easy to manipulate with a simple headline. Drudge and Trump are not trying to convince YOU. They're greasing the suckers, rallying all those angry shouting dimwits in the MAGA hats who still believe Trump's gonna build a wall and defeat ISIS and get rid of Obamacare in the first 30 days of his presidency. They're not going to read the article anyway. So it doesn't matter if Drudge slapped a question mark on the end of that sentence, because his audience isn't looking for actual news, they're just looking for CONFIRMATION.

This was a standard KGB smear tactic called kompromat (компромат), short for "compromising material." The words translate into English directly but there's no actual equivalent concept for kompromat in the English language. The closest concept would be a "smear campaign" but that doesn't convey the complex political overtones of kompromat. Roughly, it means to create compromising materials (either by distorting actual material or by simply forging material whole cloth, or both) about a person, usually specifically a politician or a popular figure. The idea was to generate negative publicity and a specific negative perception of the target in the public consciousness. This wasn't some random thing, it was a deliberate and well thought out tactic of information warfare and psychological operations by the State used to manipulate the public with the willing compliance of public information organs. Kompromat was used to blackmail target politicians, to enforce the loyalty of public figures, or to destroy a popular figure in support of the current regime before they were erased and sent to die in some Siberian gulag.

It should be noted that kompromat didn't die with the Soviet Union, it is still very much an accepted tactic of the former Soviet states, chief among them, Russia.


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