The GOP's health care dilemma

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.
bdog
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 4131
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 5:26 am

Re: The GOP's health care dilemma

Postby bdog » Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:16 am

gargantua wrote:Obviously, there are powerful interests arrayed against this. Voting for Bernie didn't work this time. So now what?

Trump's win changes everything.

If not Bernie, someone like him will be seen as electable in 2020.

Ned Flounders
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 942
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:32 pm

Re: The GOP's health care dilemma

Postby Ned Flounders » Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:47 am

bdog wrote:Trump's win changes everything.

If not Bernie, someone like him will be seen as electable in 2020.

Maybe, maybe not. When 2020 rolls around, if things have gone badly and Trump's administration is widely seen as having been a disaster for the country, people might be less enthusiastic about voting for inexperienced outsiders.

Basically, it depends what happens over the next four years.

jman111
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 4658
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:43 pm
Location: Dane County
Contact:

Re: The GOP's health care dilemma

Postby jman111 » Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:30 am

Ryan is toast.
In comparison to Republican efforts to repeal and replace Obamacare in 2017, the year leading up to the passage of the Affordable Care Act seems like the gold standard of thoughtful and considered governance.


And here:
The House’s hard-liners didn’t sink the American Health Care Act. The bill’s failures belong to Paul Ryan alone.

It’s just not clear that Ryan is the man who can make a health care deal happen.

PaleoLiberal
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 1972
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 10:01 pm
Location: Madison

Re: The GOP's health care dilemma

Postby PaleoLiberal » Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:23 am

Sometimes I wonder if Trump is as incompetent as he seems.
Maybe he did this deliberately to damage Ryan.

Now Trump is talking about working with Democrats for his "tax reform" package. If so, that might be smart. Many of the things in the "tax reform" package are pure welfare for billionaires, but there are a few good ideas in there.
For example, taxing companies based upon their US sales is a good idea. If done properly, that would eliminate any advantages companies get by moving offshore to Bermuda or wherever. It also gets rid of tax advantages for moving production overseas. If Trump wanted to push through just that part of a tax bill, I am sure he would get quite a few Democrats to join him.

Henry Vilas
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 24968
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 8:57 pm
Location: Name sez it all
Contact:

Re: The GOP's health care dilemma

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Mar 27, 2017 3:18 pm

News reports say Bernie Sanders is ready to introduce a Medicare-for-all bill in the Senate. Will the GOP, which controls both Houses, let it come to a vote? And if so, how many (from both parties) will vote in the affirmative?

PaleoLiberal
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 1972
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 10:01 pm
Location: Madison

Re: The GOP's health care dilemma

Postby PaleoLiberal » Mon Mar 27, 2017 3:21 pm

It will only come to a vote in the House if Paul Ryan lets it come to a vote, meaning no.
The "Hassert Rule" says it can't come to a vote unless the majority of GOP Representatives support it.

Ned Flounders
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 942
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:32 pm

Re: The GOP's health care dilemma

Postby Ned Flounders » Wed Mar 29, 2017 3:50 pm

Advocates of expanding access to health care like to point to other countries, where all citizens have access to health care at much lower cost than the US and generally with high levels of satisfaction.

But we don't have to look overseas for this comparison. Conveniently, the US itself has almost every type of health care system, simultaneously:

    1. Government-run medical system, (military and veterans)

    2. Single-payer health care (Medicare and Medicaid)

    3. Employment-linked private insurance

    4. Individual private insurance

    5. The uninsured
In general, Republicans want to shift people down that list -- move prople from single-payer to private insurance, and from private insurance to uninsured. Democrats want to move people up the list.

The cool thing is that you can survey people to see how satisfied they are with their access to health care. It turns out that right here in the US the systems at the top of the list -- government-run medical care systems and single-payer systems -- are the most popular. The unhappiest people are those with private insurance, or worse yet no insurance at all:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8G22YFWsAIzU8K.jpg

jman111
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 4658
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:43 pm
Location: Dane County
Contact:

Re: The GOP's health care dilemma

Postby jman111 » Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:14 pm

Pence's Obamacare diplomacy fails to yield a deal
Conservatives and moderates say they heard two different things from the White House.

The White House’s latest last-ditch effort to save the GOP’s Obamacare replacement bill hit a brick wall Tuesday night, as conservative and moderate Republicans met and realized they had two very different understandings of the changes sought by top Trump officials.

Conservatives in the House Freedom Caucus say Vice President Mike Pence, chief of staff Reince Priebus and budget director Mick Mulvaney sought to win their votes by offering a repeal of major Obamacare regulations during a Monday night meeting. But moderates who met with the same Trump officials hours before were told the changes wouldn’t be as far-reaching.

It seems that the White House thinks they can get to agreement by promising different things to different factions of their party. And they apparently think that the two groups won't figure out that they've been duped. It's amateur hour in DC.

Cadfael
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 1160
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2016 11:46 am

Re: The GOP's health care dilemma

Postby Cadfael » Fri Apr 07, 2017 12:09 am

This time they might pass it.
They're going to modify it enough to get the votes they need.

They were just shoveling money at those damn freeloaders. They'll hunker down and put something together that will satisfy the hardline conservatives who wouldn't sign it because people could use it to get health care.

Once they've managed to make it ineffective, and letting states opt out of whatever they want to will probably be enough to do that, the House Freedom Caucus, three dozen strong, will sign it and bam. We're back to third world status.

I bet you thought they'd change it so the Democrats would like it better.

Ned Flounders
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 942
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:32 pm

Re: The GOP's health care dilemma

Postby Ned Flounders » Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:14 pm

The zombie awakes again!

White House plans Obamacare showdown next week

The White House is pushing for another showdown vote on repealing Obamacare next week, to coincide with President Donald Trump hitting his 100-day milestone in office.

Right, when they tried to get this done in two weeks it went so smoothly that this time they're going to try to do it in one week.

But Republican congressional leaders are skeptical the vote can happen so quickly. “The question is whether it can get 216 votes in the House and the answer isn't clear at this time,” said a senior GOP aide. “There is no legislative text and therefore no agreement to do a whip count on."

OK, so there's not actually a bill yet, but you're still hoping to pass it next week.

What's all the rush, anyway?

Administration officials are feeling inordinate pressure to pass the legislation because of Trump's impatience and fears that his failure to repeal the health care law will dominate coverage of the administration's first 100 days, which end next week, officials say.

Oh, of course, it's Trump's ego.

Trump has asked repeatedly — and sometimes several times a day — about the status of the health care law and seems more engaged than during last month's failed effort to get Speaker Paul Ryan’s American Health Care Act through the chamber, a senior administration official said.

He doesn't have a particular policy on healthcare that he wants to enact, he just wants to be seen as having done something. The continued existence of Obamacare hurts his feelings!

Ironically, the media had mostly forgotten about last month's Trumpcare fiasco. Now it'll be paraded across the headlines for another week!

Brilliant move, geniuses.

Roy
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 5884
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 11:31 pm

Re: The GOP's health care dilemma

Postby Roy » Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:18 pm

Doesn't have to be the greatest legislation to be better than the ACA or Obamacare. LMAO

Cadfael
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 1160
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2016 11:46 am

Re: The GOP's health care dilemma

Postby Cadfael » Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:23 pm

Roy wrote:Doesn't have to be the greatest legislation to be better than the ACA or Obamacare. LMAO

Wow. Both of those are bad?

Ned Flounders
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 942
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:32 pm

Re: The GOP's health care dilemma

Postby Ned Flounders » Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:29 pm

More news coverage of this impending clusterfuck. I love it.

The GOP’s biggest health care achievement has been making Obamacare more popular

The ACA is now more popular than Donald Trump, Mike Pence, Paul Ryan, or the GOP...

So Republicans’ strategy, right now, is to replace a law that’s more popular than they are with a bill that was polling at 17 percent before it went down in flames. And their approach to doing that isn’t a new campaign where they persuade the public that the AHCA is a good idea, nor is it a new proposal that fixes the problems that made the old bill so unpopular.

Instead, it’s a backroom deal that changes the AHCA so it’s easier for insurance companies to charge sick people more for coverage. Is that really what Republicans think the public disliked about the original bill? That it made it too hard for insurers to turn away former cancer patients?

Image

Not all the House GOP is feeling the urgency to rush this through in time for Trump's 100th Day:

White House, GOP Leaders at Odds Over Plans for Obamacare Vote

The Trump White House and congressional Republicans were at odds Thursday over whether to try for another vote on replacing Obamacare next week, indicating that neither side had a clear strategy for moving on one of the president’s central campaign promises.

President Donald Trump’s administration expects the House to vote soon after lawmakers return from recess on Tuesday and draft language could be circulated as soon as Thursday night. Success would give the president a legislative victory to boast about before his 100th day in office April 29.

But a senior House Republican aide said that revised language for a bill hasn’t been agreed on and there’s no text yet for lawmakers to review. There’s no target date for a vote, whether next week or at any future time, the aide said. [...]

A vote next week may risk another big political embarrassment like the one in March when Trump and Ryan abruptly scrapped a vote for lack of Republican support.

Ned Flounders
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 942
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:32 pm

Re: The GOP's health care dilemma

Postby Ned Flounders » Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:32 pm

Roy wrote:Doesn't have to be the greatest legislation to be better than the ACA or Obamacare. LMAO

Dude, the ACA is Obamacare.

And yes, it would be possible to tweak Obamacare/ACA in various ways to make it somewhat better, but that's not what the Republicans are doing.

Making it better would require spending more money. The GOP wants to spend less money on healthcare so they can use the money for tax cuts for the rich.

That is why every GOP alternative is much less popular than ACA/Obamacare.

That is also why this thread is titled The GOP's health care dilemma.

PaleoLiberal
Forum God/Goddess
Posts: 1972
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 10:01 pm
Location: Madison

Re: The GOP's health care dilemma

Postby PaleoLiberal » Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:37 pm

Interesting how well the GOP Obamacare smear worked.

Polls consistently showed a majority of Americans like ACA, but a majority of Americans dislike Obamacare.

Too bad they're the same thing.

When the GOP tries to repeal Obamacare with Shitcare, people realize they are losing ACA, which they actually like.

This is going almost as badly as when Paul Ryan tried to replace SS with Ryan Security.


Return to “National Politics & Government”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests