Speaking Truth to Power

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.
PaleoLiberal
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Re: Speaking Truth to Power

Postby PaleoLiberal » Sat Apr 01, 2017 5:33 pm

Maybe there is a God, maybe there isn't.

I personally believe that we humans cannot even conceive of what such a deity would be like. Maybe it was a bunch of computer programmers or scientists who came up with a simulation. Maybe it was a much higher intelligence, maybe it was all an accident.

The point is, in a secular republic, it doesn't matter. The laws of the State of California were written by humans elected by the people of California, who may or may not have been inspired by whatever deity or deities inspire the laws of Man.

If you are a Christian, remember what Jesus said: give onto Caesar what is Caesar's. In a secular republic, that works for atheists, Hindus, Zoroastrians, etc.

These RWNJ heroes not only broke the Laws of Man, they also broke one of the Ten Commandments. They bore false witness. The combination is why they are being prosecuted.

And, If ymbj were really serious about stopping abortion, then he would support the family planning that Planned Parenthood supplies. Ymbj has never once addressed the issue that defunding Planned Parenthood actually INCREASES abortions. So this bearing of false witness leads to more death. And this is how Christians are supposed to behave?

If God is as you say, these RWNJ heroes will rot in Hell after they get out of prison, unless they repent their sins.

jonnygothispen
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Re: Speaking Truth to Power

Postby jonnygothispen » Sat Apr 01, 2017 5:35 pm

PaleoLiberal wrote:... Wisconsin doesn't have this law, but California does...


In Wisconsin, it's legal to record someone in public-anywhere there is no expectation of privacy.

You can only record or videotape someone in private w/o the other party's permission if you're a part of the conversation. However, these types of recordings cannot be used in court.

Even the police are highly restricted from using electronic surveillance where you have a reasonable expectation of privacy except for: felony drug or computer crimes, murder & a few more. And even then they have to get the DA to apply to the magistrate judge of their district for specific kinds of surveillance at specific times & locations.

Prof. Wagstaff
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Re: Speaking Truth to Power

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Sat Apr 01, 2017 5:53 pm

gargantua wrote:No, I don't believe in a being who always existed, and always will, through all eternity. Who knows everything that I've done and everything I will ever do. Who knows not just all my thoughts, but the thoughts of everyone who ever lived. Who takes a keen personal interest in every single bit of minutiae in all of our lives.
What utter nonsense.


The nice thing is, your beliefs -- or mine -- don't matter any more than ymbj's. You can't force yours on him any more than he can force his on you. That's called religious freedom, and it's not just The American Way in theory, it's the law.

At this time, I'd just like to note that if God is as goddamn powerful as you claim, ymbj, He could stop abortion. That He hasn't seems pretty telling, given it's been going on for as long as humans have walked the Earth. Oh, right, free will. Huh. Guess He blundered on that one. If only He'd seen it coming, eh? So to recap: He created people with free will and made sure some of'em would want to do things He considered evil -- because otherwise . . . uh, He wouldn't have to condemn most of them to eternal punishment or something? -- then He made it so the people He deemed good would forever be pretty much powerless to stop people He deems evil. (I mean, you would agree that people have been doing stuff you and He consider evil pretty much since, like, forever, right, ymbj?) You see the problem here? I'm just not seeing the whole "all-good, all-knowing, all-powerful" side of this guy. See, now, if I were creating people and I didn't want them to do something, then I'd make it so they couldn't do that thing. Doesn't seem very hard, does it? Don't want people to have abortions? Easy peasy! Just make it so babies don't need to gestate for 9 months inside another person which, c'mon, seems a little nuts anyway from an all-powerful deity perspective (but of course, makes absolutely perfect sense from an evolutionary perspective. But I digress.) Lessee now, how to make it so abortion never happens and messes up my plan for every single life I created? (Which really shouldn't be able to fail in the first place, given I'm all-powerful and all-knowing and, shit, I keep getting distracted . . .) Oooh, I know! How about when a man and woman decide they want to have a baby (only if they're married, naturally -- why is it unmarried people can have babies anyway? Another thing you'd think an all-powerful deity could've prevented if he disliked it so . . .) they could sacrifice, oh I dunno, let's say an ox to me. Yes. I like oxen. Who doesn't? And if the ox pleased me (some oxen, after all, are simply of no use to all-powerful deities such as myself) then the next morning, I'd make a baby spring fully-formed from the ashes left on the sacrificial altar. Ta-da! Can't abort that! One minute there's nothing there and then the next, BLAMMO! Instant baby! No muss, no fuss, and certainly no abortions! See how easy it is to come up with a better plan? Gotta say, I think you might've backed the wrong deity. Sounds like he's all hat and no cattle when it comes to the whole omnipotence thing.

Of course, I don't really care that your fairy tale is full of holes, I just care about the law. And as others have already noted, the law says you can't establish your particular fairy tale as the only fairy tale. Other people get to have theirs too. It's really pretty simple. And I know you understand that because you've made it clear that if you feel anyone else's fairy tale is being considered as the basis for a law, you'll be having none of it. In other words, you know exactly how the rest of us feel when you try to impose your religious beliefs on us, you're just pretending you don't.

Oh, and also: questioning how other people can find meaning and enjoyment in life without believing that the majority of human beings who have or will ever live are going to burn in Hell for all eternity is pretty hilarious to me. God knows that if I believed that, I'd be extremely depressed all the time. When I become God, the first thing I'm gonna do is stop torturing the majority of my creations. I'm cool like that.

jonnygothispen
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Re: Speaking Truth to Power

Postby jonnygothispen » Sat Apr 01, 2017 6:00 pm

I'm into the deist belief of a higher power that doesn't concern itself with materialistic affairs. A sort of natural law of love.

Prof. Wagstaff
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Re: Speaking Truth to Power

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Sat Apr 01, 2017 6:04 pm

PaleoLiberal wrote:And, If ymbj were really serious about stopping abortion, then he would support the family planning that Planned Parenthood supplies. Ymbj has never once addressed the issue that defunding Planned Parenthood actually INCREASES abortions. So this bearing of false witness leads to more death. And this is how Christians are supposed to behave?

Image

gargantua
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Re: Speaking Truth to Power

Postby gargantua » Sat Apr 01, 2017 6:31 pm

I believe it may have been Kurt Vonnegut who said "Never try to argue a man out of the expectation of an afterlife".
One addition to Wags' list of what an all-powerful deity could do: show up. And say, "hey assholes! Knock off this abortion crap or else!"

Madsci
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Re: Speaking Truth to Power

Postby Madsci » Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:15 pm

Nature is my god. Stop messing it up already.
In my opinion most of the problems we have on this planet can be linked to people fighting over their beliefs. These beliefs give humans way too much "rational" for their actions. As in the world is their playground and they can destroy it because they are so mighty.
We really should use our big brains in a much more constructive matter.

bdog
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Re: Speaking Truth to Power

Postby bdog » Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:30 pm

Madsci wrote:In my opinion most of the problems we have on this planet can be linked to people fighting over their beliefs. These beliefs give humans way too much "rational" for their actions.


You should explain this to your brother. Henry is one of the most dogmatic posters on this forum.

But you probably know that already.

Madsci
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Re: Speaking Truth to Power

Postby Madsci » Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:36 pm

Bdog - you make zero sense to me.

gargantua
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Re: Speaking Truth to Power

Postby gargantua » Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:46 pm

Madsci wrote:We really should use our big brains

Another Vonnegut saying. In this case, enlisting in the military during the Vietnam War. Quote: Thanks a lot, big brain!

gargantua
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Re: Speaking Truth to Power

Postby gargantua » Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:48 pm

Aside from that, humanity's superstitions are the single largest source of conflict in our world, in my opinion. Show me a bigger one. Your nonexistent god won't, so it's on you mortals.

Ned Flounders
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Re: Speaking Truth to Power

Postby Ned Flounders » Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:50 pm

you must be joking wrote:Or, if you are like me, you believe that after 70 some years we die and are judged by an eternal God? That after such judgement we either spend eternity in Heaven or Hell.

If you believe as I do, would you also believe that God is the author of all life and all life is made for his purposes? If you believe that you also would probably believe that each of us is to carry out the will of God in leading our lives to the best of our ability. That anyone who interfears with God's purpose in each life created has declared war against God.

OK, for the sake of argument let's assume I believe all of the above. Onward...

ymbj wrote:If you believe as I do, then abortion is wrong.

That doesn't automatically follow.

You believe two things: God exists, and abortion is wrong. That's fine so far. But then you insist that one of them naturally follows from the other. That it is impossible to believe the first one without believing the second.

But there are millions and millions of people who agree with you about the first thing (God exists) and disagree with you about the second (abortion).

ymbj wrote:It is taking a life of one of God's creations. (Obviously self defense and a just war are only defending the life God gave you so that is not the same as taking the life of an innocent.)

People might disagree with you that abortion is "taking a life". Or they might point out that eating a hamburger involves "taking a life of one of God's creations". Or they might disagree with your claim that it's OK to kill God's creations in war or self defense.

You cannot start with your starting point (God exists) and then logically deduce all the rest of your beliefs from that one fact (it's OK to take lives of God's cow creations, or take the lives of God's human beings in a war, but not OK to take the lives of embryos).

Those are separate beliefs, and people may share some of them while rejecting others.

The rest of your post is similar, or perhaps a mirror image of the first half. You really have trouble understanding that people may have very different beliefs from yours, and when you try to understand or describe those beliefs you make all kinds of bad assumptions, one after another.

Like assuming that if someone doesn't believe in God then they must believe that nothing matters and therefore there's no point in getting married or having children. You are just piling one false assumption on top of another.

Ned Flounders
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Re: Speaking Truth to Power

Postby Ned Flounders » Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:53 pm

bdog wrote:You should explain this to your brother. Henry is one of the most dogmatic posters on this forum.

Henry is a dogmatic foron.
You can also b dog matic, too.

bdog
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Re: Speaking Truth to Power

Postby bdog » Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:58 pm

Madsci wrote:Bdog - you make zero sense to me.

Proof that blood is thicker than forum.

bdog
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Re: Speaking Truth to Power

Postby bdog » Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:59 pm

Ned Flounders wrote:
bdog wrote:You should explain this to your brother. Henry is one of the most dogmatic posters on this forum.

Henry is a dogmatic foron.
You can also b dog matic, too.

Good one. That folks, is creative.


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